Episode 2: Episode Drew

Welcome back to episode 2 and the Nancy Drew Crew. If you know us than you know we are both fanatics for Nancy Drew whether it be the books, games, or movies! This episode is dedicated to our passion for Nancy Drew; in it we go over the history of ND, how she played a role in our lives, and our hopes for the future.
Note - The transcript will be improved for episode 3

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Transcript

Gabe: 0:08

Hello. Are you beautiful people? And we're going to be talking about Nancy Drew, the thing that brought us together, the fame that is.

Lauren: 0:17

Probably.

Gabe: 0:18

Maybe not most impacted, but definitely has had a big impact on both of our lives. But, you know, before we get into that, I think we should talk a little bit about what we've been doing, how we've been in the past week. My life was kind of a little bit of a nightmare. All of the little preschoolers brought their little preschool germs.

Lauren: 0:40

Rose.

Gabe: 0:41

And. But then our main teacher and me, like, we're really sick. Like, she was really badly sick. Oh, you know, her and her kids are all, like, massive throwing up. It was so bad. I didn't throw up, but, like, I was. Yeah, it was. It was like violent to like she she was not doing well. I was not doing well. And then I started my period and I was like.

Lauren: 1:09

Hmm.

Gabe: 1:11

And it was like, I had it. It was like I wasn't. Because part of the reason I take my birth control is I have a hormonal imbalance. I produce slightly more testosterone than is normal. And it it messes with me. But and it was like it felt like before I was on my birth control and my emotions were all over the place and they were like, not my emotions. I didn't know I was feeling things. I was. And then I was like super depressed. And then I was like, Oh, this is just. But we're here.

Lauren: 1:42

At the feeling we're here.

Gabe: 1:46

It's literally all of the feelings at once that I was like.

Lauren: 1:51

Dig on.

Gabe: 1:53

But yeah, I don't know. This was just a nightmare. But. I don't know. I always feel like the start of the week because I started out the week in the gym. I'm like, If I can just get to Monday and like get in to class. I know I'll feel better because there's so. Like unapologetically themselves. They're so happy and bubbly and cheerful that I'm like, How can I be sad and miserable.

Lauren: 2:22

When I'm.

Gabe: 2:22

Like, surrounded by. All this choice are so. What was what was your week like?

Lauren: 2:31

Actually better than it was. Yeah. No, we are housesitting for my parents and it's been lovely. So we're back in my hometown, which I really don't spend a lot of time in, but we have been going out to eat at a variety of places. We have been seeing some friends, some of my good friends. We've been drinking beer and alcohol and wine from my parents stores storages. So that's been great. Yeah. The weather was really nice this weekend, so we were able to get out and walk and I've just been really kind of for the first time been able to show my fiancee a lot of where I grew up, because usually we just come to my parents house, hang out for a while, and then get on back home. So it was our first time really running around and exploring my hometown and him getting a feel of this is what my life was before I left to go off to college. So it's cute.

Gabe: 3:37

That's so wholesome. I love that. So do you like where you guys live now? Is that like kind of far away from where you grew up? Like, is is there, like, a big difference between.

Lauren: 3:51

It's where I grew up was a lot more in the woods. And then I live in a fairly urban environment now. I mean, it's suburban, but like there's, you know, it's not just houses and so. Right? Yeah, it's a it's a different it's a different world. And he grew up in farmlands and also a rural area. So he and I are both adjusting and growing and this city life. But it's not what we grew up with.

Gabe: 4:30

But you say you guys or maybe you can't speak for him, but like, do you guys prefer kind of where you live now or do you just feel like it was maybe like more natural? Not natural. That's not the right word. I don't know. Like, do you prefer where you live now or do you miss kind of like where you grew up?

Lauren: 4:50

We both grew up around a good amount of nature. And so we do miss that. We love the walkability of our area because we still have a good amount of nature where we are. But. There's a lot of development in a lot of housing. And so it's it's it's a different feel. But we love the ability to be able to walk and not have to drive 10 minutes to get to the nearest grocery store or a restaurant or. You know, being ten a ten minute drive from anything you would want to do is it's fine. It's not a big deal, especially if you're driving among trees and you're not on a highway the whole time. But the walkability, especially for kids and for younger people who don't necessarily have access to a car all the time, it's just a different environment than what we grew up with.

Gabe: 5:50

When I was in college, I studied abroad and lived in London for like four months, which is a really big change because like, like you were saying. Like work versus suburban as I don't know if that's the right word. Like we are like neighborhoods and stuff, but we're definitely like a lot of nature and everything, which I really love. And so, like, living in like a city, city was a very strange adjustment. And I could, I could appreciate it and I could appreciate the benefits of it. But I was also just like nature sake. I don't want to say homesick, though, like. It made me kind of depressed a little bit. And like when we visited Norway and stuff, I was I remember like I wanted to kiss the.

Lauren: 6:39

Earth.

Gabe: 6:42

Trees. I've missed.

Lauren: 6:43

You.

Gabe: 6:45

And we did like a nature walk and stuff as like, yeah, the city life is not for me. I could not do it for more than increments of time. It just made me so sad, which is really weird if you think about it, because I feel like in the city, you know, you're constantly surrounded by people. So why would you feel lonely?

Lauren: 7:06

But cities? Because of their nature and because of the people who live there. There's less of a need or incentive to get to know people around you because people are moving, because people are in and out, because people don't put down roots. They're like, Well, I'm going to live in this apartment for one, maybe two years, and then I'm going to scoot off and live somewhere else versus being in more of the suburbs or just being around more houses where people are like, Nope, I'm going to live here for ten years. My family's going to be here. My kids are going to grow up here. Maybe my grandparents lived here, maybe my parents lived in the town, but just elsewhere. And now we've moved here. So it's it's the putting down roots and therefore wanting to create a community around you where you can connect because you know you're going to be there for a long time, which is something maybe you don't get in the city.

Gabe: 8:03

We have a cabin up north and it is definitely in a city that like, you're not having a lot of civilization that's not there. Well, yeah, like there's not a lot of civilization. You know, you don't have your conveniences that you have, you know, closer to the cities. And I feel like part of that, like why that's also different is it's not just your roots, but also like your neighbors are who you have to depend on. Like when something goes wrong, sometimes they are all you have. So, like, I also feel like that's part of the incentive to get to know them and be friendly and stuff.

Lauren: 8:38

Because you never know if they're going to come over and need butter, you know, or you're going to need to give an egg. So when.

Gabe: 8:44

When literally the stereotype, can I have a cup of sugar?

Lauren: 8:47

But when you're in the city and everything is at your fingertips and everything's convenient and you can get everything and do everything for yourself again, there's no incentive to try to interact with somebody else. Who can help you because you don't need help in your day to day life.

Gabe: 9:07

Yes, I totally agree. And speaking of people who need help. Everybody we run into as now.

Lauren: 9:14

Through.

Gabe: 9:16

All of the chores they always have for us. Oh, my.

Lauren: 9:20

Yes. Hence all of my pay. Nancy emotes. I love it.

Gabe: 9:28

Give it. Give us our wage. We are working hard. We deserve it.

Lauren: 9:34

White Wolf, we are looking directly at you.

Gabe: 9:39

Call it out. Call it out. I love it. I think we I think we move into it. I think we move into the timeline. This this is all you. This is your time to shine. Your two days of research has accumulated to this.

Lauren: 9:53

Like we've talked about, Nancy Drew, is really how we connected. It's been a big part of our lives kind of for a very long time at this point. And we wanted to talk about where Nancy Drew came from, what other media talks about. Nancy Drew includes Nancy Drew, how her characters kind of changed and developed throughout the decades. And then we'll talk more about the games themselves. But for anyone who doesn't know, the Nancy Drew character was created by Edward Stratton Meyer just a few years after he created The Hardy Boys. So he made the Hardy Boys. He created those characters in 1927, and then three years later, he came out with Nancy Drew because there was such an appetite for a girl to do similar things to the Hardy Boys. Somehow in the thirties or in the late twenties, they were like, Hmm, what if girls were also somebody who catered to.

Gabe: 10:54

Blows my mind. Absolutely blows my mind. I so genuinely thought it was a female author who was like who was inspired by the Hardy Boys and was like, I'm going to I want to make a character. Like, when you told me that, I was like, I was so mind blown. My foundation was absolutely should give.

Lauren: 11:14

Yeah, I know. It's so interesting because both the Hardy Boys and Nancy Drew had ghostwriters. And Caroline King, of course, was the Nancy Drew author, quote unquote. A whole variety of people wrote her story. And so they had a similar situation for the Hardy Boys. And so the first Nancy Drew books were published in 1930. Nancy was originally 16. There's a lot of discussion about, well, is Nancy 16? Is she 18? There's a lot of confusion about that. She was originally listed as 16 because at the time that was the earliest someone could graduate high school. So they wanted her to be still a teenager, but kind of on the fringes of adulthood. And so at the time in the thirties that was 16. And then in the sixties they made her 18, so they aged her up. So that's why kind of in that core group of books, that core series, she's 16. But then in later books and a lot of later adaptations, she's 18. Other adaptations made her, you know, 20 or 21, just as we kind of age up and want to get her a college graduate or in college just so we can have some different adventures.

Gabe: 12:25

Did they ever explicitly say she was 16 or was it open ended and that's why it was confusing? Or like, why was there so much confusion about her age?

Lauren: 12:34

There remain 56 books that were started in the thirties and went on and were published until the fifties. So kind of that core 56 books, they have been done and redone to remove racist stereotypes and to make other adjustments, to modernize them, take out harmful pieces. So they're definitely not the same as they were, but it's kind of those core stories. And in those it always said, okay, so Nancy Drew is 16, she looks like this, she likes this. They have a whole little character bio in the first few paragraphs of the book just to kind of get everyone's mindset in the right direction. So yeah, they were explicitly.

Gabe: 13:19

Yeah, now that you say that, yeah.

Lauren: 13:22

So in later series I think then they would reference like, Oh, she's 18 and blah blah blah. But there are a whole variety of series in the sixties. So, so there's that core book of the thirties to the fifties, and since it was created by the guy who created the Hardy Boys, who was used to writing male characters, that's why Nancy has a lot of traditionally male attributes of her assertiveness and her ability to do things on her own, which is just so unusual for writing about a young girl at that time, kind of with that widespread media power in the sixties when they made her tea. And they also removed some of those because there was gentle dismay about, oh, well, she's being such a tomboy. We want her to be more shy and retiring and more of a lady figure, therefore, being a better role model for young girls at the time based on what they wanted young girls to be doing in the nineties than they. It was kind of a spinoff series where Nancy's going to college and otherwise aging her up. So then they could add in some more adult themes in a little bit more, you know, make out scenes by reader request. One of those series had her break up with Ned, so then she could be a single girl in college. So there was just a whole variety of series. There was in the 2000s. There have been a couple attempts of reigniting series where they did tween Nancy. Then they did some graphic novels or some comic books. The comic books and the graphic novels were okay. But then tween Nancy's series was canceled fairly early, based on a bunch of negative reviews because there was a dislike of how the character was portrayed.

Gabe: 15:14

Are you saying they were remakes or like they are trying to carry on from past series?

Lauren: 15:20

Yeah, carry on from past series. Basically take the character in a new direction that is more modern because the thirties and the 50 series, that original series, you know, Nancy, is solving little petty crimes of rich people like, you know, a mink stole was stolen or, you know, it's it was just a different kind of type of mystery she was solving. And then as you get more modern, then she's solving murders or she's solving kidnapings and she's put into peril more often than just being locked in a cabinet. So they kind of drama it up. In the nineties they were very much like paperback Pulp Fiction vibes.

Gabe: 16:00

Okay, I have a very specific scene that I read from Nancy Drew. I don't know which book it is, but it was like my worst nightmare. She ended up I don't remember how I don't remember what in. But she was like trapped. I'm pretty sure she was tied and there was like a poisonous spider in the dark room with her. And I was like.

Lauren: 16:23

Oh.

Gabe: 16:24

That's my worst nightmare. I swear, I. Okay, now, don't be awkward if it's not Nancy Drew, but I swear, it is a Nancy Drew book I was reading. For a school project. And I was like. That's scary. You're like, now I got to like I got to go look.

Lauren: 16:45

Well, it's funny, because I can remember the cover art for it. I have it down in my room out of those.

Gabe: 16:52

Oh, you know what I'm talking about?

Lauren: 16:53

Yeah. Out of those 56 books I have, I think 50 of those originals and a handful of those are copies from when my mother was a kid. And then the other ones were ones that I just.

Gabe: 17:09

Have some of those, too.

Lauren: 17:10

Wired. Because when I was young, there were you know, there were selling, like six of them together in a little bundle.

Gabe: 17:21

Yeah, yeah, I remember that.

Lauren: 17:22

Every once in awhile, I'd be able to convince my parents to let me do it. I think there was a diamond on it. That's what's going to drive me. Spike the spider sapphire mystery.

Gabe: 17:36

That one scene.

Lauren: 17:38

Was that it? Where there was.

Gabe: 17:40

As I wanted a.

Lauren: 17:40

Sapphire and a nice big. Spider diamond. Yeah, well, yeah. The spider sapphire mystery.

Gabe: 17:51

All I know is that that series, that scene the scarred me because I have borderline almost arachnophobia, not quite, but like I'm very close. Like the fear spiders is very immense. And I was like, if that had been me. Oh.

Lauren: 18:08

No, no, no, no, no.

Gabe: 18:12

I. I'm glad you remember. I'm glad I wasn't crazy, but yeah.

Lauren: 18:17

I could absolutely visualize it. But I know it's funny because reading through the books and it's and we'll talk a little bit about this when we get to the games, but rereading through the books just reminds me so much of how how the Nancy Drew mysteries are structured more of a Sherlock Holmes detective where it's not a whodunit. You know, the bad guys based on vibes. She's rocking and rolling and she's just trying to expose them or catch them in the act. But you don't have a cast of characters that you're trying to figure out who's the actual baddie, which is what the games are structured around, because that's how that makes sense. Yeah. So I get it. But it's, it's kind of a bit of a reason why the games struggle a little bit with the plot is because that is not how the Nancy Drew books are structured. Like sometimes of course, there'd be a little twist or a surprise extra villain who was part of it, who you didn't expect. But for the most part, you knew who the bad guys were when you ran into them because they were actively stealing from someone, or they were they were doing something bad. And you could tell that they were bad people. And Nancy just had to figure out how to trap them.

Gabe: 19:34

Ironically, my one of my favorite parts about the game is that it's more like a whodunit because I find that more interesting.

Lauren: 19:42

Oh, absolutely.

Gabe: 19:43

But I still love the books. Like, I still loved how the books soared.

Lauren: 19:46

Yeah. For any puzzle you're solving on your own. In game version? Absolutely. I think you have to have it. It's a whodunit. I don't know if it would make more sense to, like, reveal or have Nancy have to put together the pieces, kind of like with Sherlock Holmes, where if you played any of those games, you do have to put together all of the pieces as things go. But until you have the final pieces in the puzzle, you figure out the actual direction it goes.

Gabe: 20:11

Yeah, I have played a couple of Sherlock games and I did like that about them, but I'm also like, I'm not quite sure how they would implement that into games like the way they have the game structured now that like, I don't know.

Lauren: 20:24

Yeah.

Gabe: 20:25

But yeah, I do. But you're saying.

Lauren: 20:27

Structure wise, I think what they're doing is absolutely just fine. Now have an issue with it. That's where there's a disconnect that comes through with trying to adapt stories from the Nancy Drew series.

Gabe: 20:39

To get.

Lauren: 20:39

Into games. So that's why they pretty much take vibes. Yeah.

Gabe: 20:43

Would you like to talk a bit about the media and the movies?

Lauren: 20:46

Yeah. The first book came out in 1930, as I said, just seven years later, Warner Bros. Bought the rights to the series. So like within seven years, Warner Brothers was just like, Oh, this is a cash cow. Let's go. They bought it for $6,000, which is about $120,000 today. The person who had the rights to it agreed to this with what's his face, Warner? Mr. Warner, without a lawyer or anyone else supporting her with it. And there were famously very grateful feelings about that, which I do not blame her. Warner Bros. Within a couple of years of that purchase. So right at the end of 1930s, they had four movies come out about Nancy Drew and promoting one of the films Warner Brothers created a Nancy Drew fan club where the lead for one of the Nancy Drew movies was kind of like the person who was like the honored guest, but they had rules based on what they thought a typical target audience girl would be interested in and would have. And so one of the rules for this Nancy Drew fan club was that you must have a steady boyfriend by myself.

Gabe: 22:05

Just because Nancy had a steady boyfriend. I don't understand why that.

Lauren: 22:09

Yeah, because you want to be just like Nancy to have. You have to have a ned. What is Nancy without her, Ned? Your mind's eye thinks game.

Gabe: 22:28

So I want to be best.

Lauren: 22:31

I want to be best. Darn it. Look, we'll fight over you best. And our best was always my favorite.

Gabe: 22:42

Honestly?

Lauren: 22:43

Absolutely. Poor best. Because. Yeah. In the books. So it starts out where Nancy is best friends with a girl named Helen. And in the first couple books, she's always talking about Helen Corning. Helen is great. She's I think she's a couple of years older than Nancy. I don't really know how they met, but she's a couple of years older. She gets engaged in book two, The Hidden Staircase. So I think she then trots off and goes and gets married. And so that's just a whole thing. I love it so much because.

Gabe: 23:17

Surely she's older.

Lauren: 23:19

Yeah, I think she is a couple of years older than Nancy, and Nancy's just riding along in a car with her at the beginning of the hidden staircase, and Helen is just grinning from ear to ear, and Nancy's just like, What's going on? And Helen's like, I'm engaged. And Nancy's like, To who? What?

Gabe: 23:40

Left field.

Lauren: 23:41

Basically. Where? Yeah. So that in later books and they bring in these two cousins who are Nancy's best friends named Best and Best Marvin and George Fane. George is like a tomboy. Slim has basically a short brunet hair. She's just like an athlete. And then Bess is the polar opposite, where she's got, like, long, blond hair. She's like a little pudgy. They talk about that a lot, just like a total girly girl. Loves shopping, loves boys, major flirt, that sort of thing.

Gabe: 24:19

So the books, it it was Shadow Ranch when they were introduced, was it I, I think it was because I remember when I played the games and all of a sudden Shadow Ranch came, I was like, wait a minute, isn't this when they were introduced? But then I was like, But we already know them. And I was, I, I remember like, what the what the heck? I think I could be wrong, but I. I'm pretty sure Shadow Ranch was when. Nancy. Kind of like. Got to know there are something I don't really remember. I'm down in every state now. I'm like, Oh, no, that's not it.

Lauren: 25:00

I'm going to have to go and investigate. I mean, Shadow Ranch is only Book five, so I think that would make sense.

Gabe: 25:06

Yeah. I mean.

Lauren: 25:08

But because they definitely artan to. So I'm in there and every four or five.

Gabe: 25:15

You keep going.

Lauren: 25:15

I think that makes sense. Okay. So, yeah. So moving on. Uh, so those four movies came out. Then in the 1970s, there was a short series where it was the Hardy Boys and Nancy Drew mysteries, because some episodes focused on the Hardy Boys, some focused on Nancy. That didn't do very well. Later episodes, they kind of tried to do more of Hardy Boys focus with Nancy as kind of a side character that also didn't do well. There was a 1990 513 episode, Nancy Drew series from Canada, where Nancy is 21. She's a criminology student in New York City. And then the stories are based on some of those 1990s paperback pulp fiction books.

Gabe: 26:11

Nice. I did confirm. Google confirmed Shadow Ranch was in fact and they were in Geneva. I don't know where that out from, but I do remember playing the game and being like, Wait a minute.

Lauren: 26:26

I don't think, Oh, now I love it.

Gabe: 26:31

Because like when I was younger I didn't play the games and. Sure. So like there was like no time consumption for the games for me. So like when we got to that game, I was like.

Lauren: 26:42

Oh. There is a 2002 movie of Nancy Drew that starred Maggie Lawson, who, for anyone who doesn't know, plays Juliet O'Hara in Psych. Lovely. I love her. And that also has Nancy in college. So they are really trying to do the aging Nancy up. They that one was supposed to be spinning off into a TV series, but then a variety of things happened. Maggie moved on to a different ABC show Shenanigans, and then in 2007 there was a new Nancy Drew movie starring Emma Roberts, which was such a good movie. Nancy is uprooted from River Heights, Illinois. They go to California for Carson. Drew's job. Nancy is incredibly a fish out of water in her new high school. She has a 1950s esthetic clothing. She's an aggressive overachiever which irritates all of her classmates. She's getting hit on constantly by a younger boy who is really bummed that she's she has a long distance boyfriend. Daniela monet from Victoria is in it as a mean girl who's really crushing on Ned. Ned is played by Max Theriault, who is the older brother of Norman Bates in Bates Motel. Rachel Leigh cooks in it. Bruce Willis makes a cameo. There's just like lots happening in that movie, and it's truly delightful.

Gabe: 28:16

I'm sorry. Total sidetrack. If you love Max Serio. He's in a series called SEAL Team. And, like, he is like a beefcake. Like, he is insane. And I remember when you were Ned. Yes. Like he is a hot, hardcore seal. And I want on that memory because I still have the love of when he was Ned. And I'm like.

Lauren: 28:44

Mm.

Gabe: 28:45

Anyway, you can't unsee it.

Lauren: 28:47

He was just so little.

Gabe: 28:49

I cannot. I cannot.

Lauren: 28:52

I know. He's like Jack, like I. Anyways. Sorry. I think we are going to have to thirst over one year after each episode, last episode where they're staying over about it. What's his face from The Witcher? Oh, Henry Cavill.

Gabe: 29:15

Stop. You scare. Remind me. You care.

Lauren: 29:20

About it.

Gabe: 29:22

Who do men ever want to have a conversation? I would. I would. I would die. I would be, like, having to try so hard not to be a weird fangirl, because I don't want to make them uncomfortable. But I'd be like.

Lauren: 29:35

I just love you so much.

Gabe: 29:38

And I don't even know you. So it's weird, but, like, I feel like I know you. I have no idea. We're going to third our next episode.

Lauren: 29:48

What will I do when it happens? I mean.

Gabe: 29:51

I accepted.

Lauren: 29:51

It. So that's the Emma Roberts movie. Then there was a 2019 movie, which I discovered on stream because I was playing a Nancy Drew game. Was it midnight? No, it couldn't have been midnight in Salem. Was it Sea of Darkness? Maybe it was midnight in Salem, because that also came out in 2019 and in the end credits for that game. After it, they played a video preview for this 2019 Nancy Drew movie. And I hadn't heard anything about it, and I was just so confused. Did you see this one?

Gabe: 30:27

No. Part of me is like I feel like I know what you're talking about. And the other part of me is like, do I know? I don't know. I don't think it was Sea of darkness.

Lauren: 30:35

So yeah, I think it must have been midnight in Salem.

Gabe: 30:38

Which is weird because that came out at like the way end of 2019.

Lauren: 30:42

I think the movie did too. So I think the movie came out, The CW show and Midnight and Salem all came out around the same time, which is true chaos. But so that's. So this movie was co-created by a variety of people, including Ellen DeGeneres and Wendy Williams. It was called Nancy Drew and the Hidden Staircase. I have to see this movie. I haven't seen it. I have to go see it. But it's it seems to follow the plot of the original book, Nancy Drew in the Hidden Staircase. It seems to follow that along pretty closely. Obviously, it is incredibly modernized. So the haunting went viral and that's how Nancy hears about it. Kind of the opposite from when Emma's Nancy Drew gets upgraded from River Heights to California. This Nancy Drew moves Nancy from Chicago to Little River Heights. So she gets she's a fish out of water because she's coming from the big, bad city. And then she has to go to this boring little town. And then the mystery happens. If you haven't watched the trailer for it, I do recommend it because it is madness. Nancy is just skateboarding around. The humor is very forced. The trailer is basically 2 minutes of people just hyping Nancy, at being like, Nancy, you're just going to pick this lock, right, Nancy? What do you mean? You can just do this science. And they just basically are just telling her how amazing and incredible she is and how talented she is and how she can do everything. And that's the entire trailer of Just Nancy's amazing. And so based on reviews similar to Emma's where they were like Emma's portrayal of Nancy was great. The movie was Whatever. Same here, where Sophia Lillis, who was the lead in the IT movies, who's playing Nancy Drew? Critics say she did a great job, but then the movie itself just sucks.

Gabe: 32:36

Okay. I just I just had a glance at the trailer and see it. Okay. I remember I remember watching the trailer in 2019 and I'm like, okay, yes, I remember this. And I remember I was not terribly interested in Annette because I was like, I don't feel like this is going to be Nancy. Like, I don't feel like it's going to be true to Nancy. And I was just kind of like, I don't know, the trailer just didn't do it for me.

Lauren: 33:02

No.

Gabe: 33:03

And I think it was Salem. I think it was at the end of Salem that they showed it. So now that you bring it up, I'm like, Yeah.

Lauren: 33:10

So Salem came out, this movie came out, and then The CW, Nancy Drew Show also premiered in the end of 2019. It's on The CW, so it's following very closely with the artistic choices of Riverdale has supernatural and magical elements. Nancy is also 18, and this one, she's solving local murder. The characters do have familiar names like Bess and George and Ned, but their relationships are not what we expect them to be.

Gabe: 33:42

Yes. No, this is accurate. So this this is what I'll say. Okay. I only like when it came out, I was very excited. Not that I lost interest and like I was like that. Nancy Drew, they're making TV series for Nancy Drew. We have to watch this. And he he would sit at the kitchen with me and we watched like the first five episodes, like the second we could watch them and stream them. I was we were we were doing it. We were doing it for like the first episode. I was very like frustrated because I was like, none of these characters are.

Lauren: 34:15

What they're supposed.

Gabe: 34:16

To be.

Lauren: 34:17

And why is why is Ned like.

Gabe: 34:21

He's not a convict, but he is like a convict. There's something. And like, why is George running a restaurant and Bess is living in a van? And I was just like, Why are Best and George not related? Like I was having such an existential crisis and Dad was my dad was just like Gabriel Cho. Cho it's okay. We're getting a different artistic interpretation of Nancy Drew. And I was like, Stop speaking sense to me, please. This is my.

Lauren: 34:54

Child.

Gabe: 34:55

It's like, it's going to be okay. And then we got to the second episode and I was like, I was kind of feeling it. I was like, you know, it's okay. It, Nancy is more than just the books and everything. Like, she doesn't have to just be the original 56 books and stuff. But, you know, like, she's more than that. It's okay that they're modernizing her. And I just, I think finished watching a lot of the Sabrina that was also like CW and that had kind of stressed me out because there's totally not the Sabrina I grew up with. I was like, You know, it's okay, it's okay. That is modernized. I can I can be calm. And so then I actually started to enjoy it and I, I love shows that just like, were their way into your psyche and you're just like, you just you don't even know anymore. You're like, is it supernatural or can they explain this? How are they going to explain this? And so I actually really love I love that I have watched, I have no idea. But I was like, there has to be supernatural. There's no way. But I also like Nancy, Nancy's never really had supernatural, but also I'm always kind of like, Ooh, I hope she does.

Lauren: 36:04

Well, I think we're going to have to watch it now. I think we're each going to have to watch it. We're going to have to spend time discussing it. So tune back in because we will definitely have things to say.

Gabe: 36:15

I, I think you'll like it. I feel like maybe you'll feel like I did the first episode and feel very like, what the heck. But it. It grows on you. And I love I love the the girl who plays Nancy. I follow her on Twitter. And she was like super wholesome. And I she was so nervous. She was like, I feel like I have a big responsibility playing this role, like I have to be, Nancy. And I was like. Yes, you do. And you know what? You did it. You owned it. You did it. I'm proud of. So I'd recommend it. I want to finish it. I just, you know, things happen. There's they're going into the first season now. I'm so flabbergasted by that. You write, it was very Riverdale esque, which is a little like strange, but maybe maybe it's needed. Maybe it will rejuvenate Nancy and, like, bring her the popularity she deserves. Because I feel like Nancy Drew is very highly underrated. And I felt like that a lot of my life. And I was just kind of like, why isn't why doesn't she have more?

Lauren: 37:24

And I think that's because every time the character is played or portrayed, people like the person playing Nancy Drew or they like the Nancy Drew character, and they just think that the rest of the story is mediocre. So I think it's really interesting how each piece, each time the character is depicted, people are like, That's a cool thing to do with character. Great. Sounds good. But then the plot or just the rest of the vibes just don't work. And I think that is because we've got so many portrayals of her with all of those, quote unquote masculine attributes. And then we also have pieces coming in of just where we want her to be more feminine. And so there's that push and pull, which, depending on the portrayal, can either really work, you know, the Emma Roberts super girly girl. But of course, she was, you know, doing little badass things and whatever. The 2019 version is super tomboy. Like there's really no girly girl shenanigans.

Gabe: 38:36

I feel like the CW did from my perspective. And what I remember this was like, you know, three years ago that I watched this, but I feel like they did a good job of melding the two. So she had the feminine side. She had, you know, the fashion, some of the girl ness. But like she was also a boss as. Biatch. And she was assertive and blunt and well, maybe not blunt, but she was assertive and like, you know, helping the police solve their case. The point that the one police officer was just like so annoyed with her and like, I felt like that was so Nancy. But then the other thing that I felt like the CW did really well was I felt like they really portrayed like Nancy losing her mom. Like, I feel like sometimes in the I don't know about the books, but in the games I just don't I don't know if it's not.

Lauren: 39:33

I think in every other adaptation, Nancy loses her mom, young, like younger than ten, and then the CW, she's just lost her mom, right? Or pretty recently.

Gabe: 39:44

Pretty recently. But even that, I feel like even losing your mom at a younger age, it affects you. And I feel like that's never portrayed properly. You're like, you don't see Nancy struggling with it as much as I feel like you should. And I like that. The CW, which, I mean, I guess because it's fresher, you're going to see it more. But I still feel like. It's it's a life changing moment, especially when you're younger to be missing. You know that that much needed part in your life. Because I feel like you do need the two parts in your life helping to raise you because you have the two different perspectives, you know what I mean? And like to be completely missing one. I think makes a difference. And I feel like it's never properly shown or given enough time to be shown. I don't know. Does that make sense? So I did really like that about the CW and I liked that there was you saw a more visible tension between her and her dad, but there was also the like great love that I think I always loved about them was like they were really close, they were strongly bonded. But then you also got the realistic tension between them and butting heads and him being like worrying about her and stuff.

Lauren: 41:01

Yeah, because I mean, with such an assertive daughter having a lawyer. Dad, I. I mean, there are going to be fireworks. Yeah.

Gabe: 41:11

Surely, surely there will be.

Lauren: 41:14

All the, the different adaptations have in common is that she's a, you know, late teens or a young woman who likes to solve mysteries. That's kind of that core piece of Nancy Drew. And so moving on into the video games where that is the key attribute, she is the player who is a young person typically who likes to solve mysteries, and that's really all that she needs to be. So her interactive who creates these games that was launched in 95. Since 98, they released 33 Core and Nancy Drew games, three hidden object games called the Nancy Drew Dossier and a Nancy Drew Codes and Clues app that teaches coding skills. And they also released a couple non Nancy games, including a Hardy Boys game only for Nintendo DS and some other stuff.

Gabe: 42:12

I didn't know they did that. The Hardy Boys I had a chance.

Lauren: 42:15

To one I there was a New York Times article that came out in 2000 called Game Theory Prowling and Spying with Nancy Drew, the UN Barbie. That was the title. They called her the UN Barbie, which I thought was really interesting. And so this article came out right after message in a Haunted Mansion, which was Game three. And the article talks about how her interactive was using focus groups for young girls to try to figure out how to design games, especially for them. And they discovered during those focus groups that the mothers of those focus group girls were equally as interested and would be heavily involved in solving the mysteries with the girls. So then her interactive started creating focus groups of adult women and mothers to also cater to those demographics when designing the games. And so that's why from the jump, the games were really designed to be simple enough for a child to do, but complex enough for an adult to be also involved.

Gabe: 43:15

That makes a lot of sense, like hearing that. That makes sense because. Like they are geared for child, but also sometimes they were just on such a level that I don't know how Child Me figured out and like it was sheer dumb luck. And my dad, my dad, my dad was the one who was always heavily involved in the Nancy Drew games with me and like, he would come help a sister out.

Lauren: 43:40

So.

Gabe: 43:42

Yeah, that makes sense. It makes sense.

Lauren: 43:44

Now, I like the games because yes, with a lot of effort and focus, a child on their own could figure it out, but it also just inspires so much collaboration. And let's try to work this out together and a group discussion, which is I think why the games translate so well over streaming is because we can all collectively join together and say, Oh, I remember this one thing that we learned previously are you remember to check this one place that we talked about earlier. And so communicating out your thought process where you're doing what you're looking for, where you're stuck and having that ability to have that group together is just really interesting. I remember when I was young, I would see advertisements in like Cosmo Girl and Teen Vogue full page advertisements for the next Nancy Drew coming out because, you know, two were coming out every year and so you'd see one and they'd be like, it's perfect for a slumber party. And so their ideal was just tweens and young teens. All four of them gathered around a computer, you know, getting to get getting through a whole Nancy Drew in one sitting.

Gabe: 45:08

That's awesome. I didn't know that. I've never seen any of those. So that's really cool. And I feel like like you're saying part of the Nancy Drew experience is experiencing it with someone else. Like, are you really experiencing an integer if you don't have someone there with you and you're both just like working on it together?

Lauren: 45:26

You know, I think it's really an important piece of the game is that Nancy can call Beth and George to talk to talk through hints, to get hints like I think it's so important that she can phone a friend and talk through that, but get to know them like she can talk to them without actively just. I need a hint. Like she can learn about what's going on in their lives and she can connect with them. And I think that's so important for them to be including.

Gabe: 45:58

Yes, yes. But like you're saying that talking out with them sometimes that stops you from needing to ask from the hint, simply just saying to them, you won't believe what just happened, explaining what happened, and then getting their feedback. And sometimes that's like, that is enough for you. Be like.

Lauren: 46:17

Oh.

Gabe: 46:18

I need to go do this, I should do this, yada, yada, yada. And I felt like that was huge because who really wants to ask for a hint? You know, you want to be able to figure it out yourself.

Lauren: 46:31

Well, especially in the early games when they didn't have a journal and they didn't have a to do list. Oh, yeah. And so you really I mean, calling friends is the only way that you could have the game remind you of what you've done.

Gabe: 46:48

True. Actually, I forgot about that senior detective I have in the to do list sometimes I'm like, I miss the satisfaction of having done that yet done that check that, you know, like there's something so satisfying about checking those boxes.

Lauren: 47:05

There were collections of games where you can kind of bunch them up together a little bit. So between 1998 and 2003, it's kind of the 3 hours long games, you know, that's up to Hornet Carousel where you really could do it in one sitting wasn't too complicated, pretty linear, so you could just barrel through if you knew where to go. Scarlet Hand is a little bit of a longer one for sure, but for the most part, you know, treasure in the real tower, that's a giant haunted mansion. Those ones are pretty straightforward. You can just kind of be bop along. And as long as you remember where to find pieces specifically in Haunted Mansion, you can really just kind of barrel through those. So there and so those ones I think definitely were created for a younger mindset. Yeah, so do that. Up to 2003 is those kind of 3 hours long, probably younger tween and then 2003 to 2008. There's a collection of games that's Deception Island all the way through White Wolf, where we are traveling the world. We're going to Venice, Ireland, England, Hawaii. New Orleans, Canada, France. We're going to the Wild West. We're going in the Pacific Northwest with the orca as we're going back in time with the old clock, like we are moving and grooving through the ages, which is really fun. I don't know why they pivoted to all of those exploration areas, but I think in their early games, Nancy was just floating around the U.S. They were like, Look. Time to go abroad.

Gabe: 48:47

I think that was I think that was a huge a huge move. I don't know this for a fact, but I feel like that would have brought in more people, especially because when they picked a theme, like they tried to fully embrace it. And I loved those because you learned more than just like Morse code and stuff, like you started learning languages.

Lauren: 49:08

I think, yeah, I think they started doing that really after Scarlet Hand because I think Scarlet Hand because that one is so educational. I think they got such good feedback from that about like, you know, you could learn Morse code, you could learn about the Aztecs. I think people just really gravitated to that.

Gabe: 49:30

And I feel like that was also one of my favorite things of Nancy Drew was the educational aspect and the things you learned and then how they translated into like your life and how you could use them.

Lauren: 49:45

So after that kind of traveling the world focus. Then 2009 to 2015, that's where that's Waverly Place. That's all the way through Sea of Darkness. So we're going spooky. We're doing much longer games. There's lots of movement and locations in the spaces, so you're going to lots of different rooms. There's a lot more lore involved. So they kept going with that. A lot of education pieces, they moved into kind of a tiered hint system because the games were longer, they needed a lot more support. You spend more time building relationships with characters, so there's a lot more kind of side quests involved and a lot of bits and pieces like that. There's just more room to explore and play adjacent games or do adjacent tasks that ultimately do kind of come together and help the real world and solve the final crime. But you're doing a variety of side tasks for a small character. So it's just interesting how that all developed.

Gabe: 50:59

And then I'm like, I think that was a smart move to. It's now that you've got the interest, you've captured a lot of people with the Nancy Drew. Now we have to delve into the lore. We have to grow the characters. We have to learn more to keep them wanting and having played through the games in order. One. It's playing them in order. It's super fun watching the development, like how they start getting new technology, how they start redesigning, how they're keeping Nancy with the times and like how her cell phone, you know, evolves and all that. But also, it was like. Like I feel that cycle of, okay, you get sucked in and you're going and you're like, You just want to do a mystery. And then all of a sudden you're exploring the world and like, that's what's keeping you in is you're like, Okay, I want to see the next place. Because, you know, as a kid, you're not you're not probably traveling across the world or maybe not even always as a young adult.

Lauren: 51:57

But you're reading about.

Gabe: 51:58

It adult and generally it is. Right. Like it's a privilege to be able to travel the world and go to those places. So then to have the game bring that place to you, you're like like it's addictive and you're like, you want to keep going, but then you're kind of like, But I want more. And then they suddenly start adding more to the lore. So like I think they did a really bang up.

Lauren: 52:18

Job and I think that they aged the games up with their audience. You know, they started everyone and everyone's getting introduced. Young You know, the first games, you know, tweens and then those kind of between 2000 and or 2003 and 2009, you know, when they're starting to get more of late teenagers and then up until 2015, then we can start pulling in the early twenties and so. So they just keep aging things up, which is great for people who are already fans. I mean, there are definitely some of those later games where I don't I don't know if a 13 year old would be able to do it on their own.

Gabe: 53:04

Yeah, true. But I can still see them wanting to play. Oh yeah. Liking to play it, like enjoying it and and knowing how to get that access on Google like if they need a little bit of extra help. Because I feel like when we were really younger, like when I was playing these games, I was like six, seven, eight and like trying to access Google on the laptop to get some help was just not happening. Not really.

Lauren: 53:31

Well, and where would you find help?

Gabe: 53:32

Yeah.

Lauren: 53:33

So there were forums.

Gabe: 53:36

Where it say that you.

Lauren: 53:38

Where would you get by?

Gabe: 53:42

No. Bye bye. Probably. I'm trying to remember. There started to be one by the like seventh or eighth, maybe there was like a website and they and they were kind of nice to like they would give you a section and then give you your section so you could try and.

Lauren: 54:02

Do it and not get spoiled. Yeah, it.

Gabe: 54:03

Was like that was where I started.

Lauren: 54:05

Yeah. And then.

Gabe: 54:07

I mean, we got midnight and.

Lauren: 54:08

Then we have midnight and Salem. So very controversial game if you're not familiar. There was just this came out in 2019. There was a really big shuffling with her interactive employees. There was a change in game structure and graphics and style. There is a new voice actor for Nancy. For the first time since the Games started coming out, it was a completely different format. It was the first game fully led by the CEO who started in 2014.

Gabe: 54:43

Well, the big key thing about it, too, is that there is so there's a mass of time like huge time gap from the game before to this. Like it was a for it was a four years, right. Because Yeah. Had 2015 to 2019, there's a four year gap throughout that. Half the time we didn't even know if we were getting a next Nancy Drew game. And like there is so much back and forth. Are we going to have it? Are we not going to have it? What's it going to be? Which like I feel like further fueled everything else and for context.

Lauren: 55:14

Before this, before or. Basically up until Sea of Darkness, which came out in 2015, there were one, two, two Nancy games coming out each year. So having four years between gains was shocking, was wild. We didn't know what to do with ourselves. We were totally unsure of what was going on with the company, with the layoffs that were going on, with just all of the shenanigans. We truly just had no idea what was happening. And yeah, then Salem came out in 2019.

Gabe: 55:54

I got a lot of flashback. Because they weren't communicating with the fans. They got huge lash back because of their inability to communicate what was going on.

Lauren: 56:05

Yeah. And we haven't had any official announcement of a new game since 2019. So. Yeah, TBD, I guess. So thinking about the future, there have been a lot of attempts at making the games mobile or iPad or Kindle or WI or Nintendo DS or there's so many other platforms that they have also launched nature games on. It's kind of companion pieces as opposed to a traditional PC format. Which is interesting.

Gabe: 56:48

Wait. Before we do that, you have to give us your 62nd opinion on Salem, because I know you have huge feelings about that game. We want to hear it.

Lauren: 56:59

I want to hear how.

Gabe: 57:02

It needs to be done.

Lauren: 57:03

So my super quick. Midnight in Salem. Peace. Is that. I. Know that they spent a lot of time updating the graphics, updating the move style from kind of their traditional point and click. There's just a lot more mobility. There's a whole new 3D style of graphics. I think it's fine. I don't I don't think it's worth losing out on other pieces of the game for that. But I think it's fine. I am sad that we lost our voice. Actress for Nancy Drew, Lorna and Loni Manila. Loni Manila. Yes, I miss her. At the same time, she was doing the games for 32 games. So I ultimately can't be too upset that they switched her out. It's definitely a bummer. But, you know, stuff happens. And if that's what made sense to have a younger person who is closer to the business, fine. I. I'm bummed, but I can't fault them for that. But I can't fault them for is. So they changed the game structure. They changed our favorite lead actress. Our favorite voice actress. They also changed up the entire format of the game. So it's very much functions as a graphic novel kind of thing or like a story. It functions more as a story rather than a mystery. Yeah, they minimize the puzzles until the very end. So they spend the first half of the game focusing so much on building out the story. Most of the Nancy Drew games have five characters, maybe at maximum. And then you're figuring out whodunit. The nine Salem has like 15 characters, and you have to get to know every single one of them. And so that's why the first half of the game, it's exhausting because you're sitting around getting to know each of these characters. Every single one of them is unlikable, and you're going around enjoying the vibes of Salem learning a little bit, but not anywhere near enough about some of the interesting facts of Salem. So you're just walking around talking with people who suck and not doing any puzzles. And then the second half. Mm hmm. Then they're rushing through the plot because all of a sudden they realize, Oh, gosh, we have to get through the rest of the plot. And so then the second half, they move through the plot so quickly, you don't know what's going on. They throw some genuinely very good puzzles in at the end. Like I really enjoy with their new mobility, what you can do with the puzzles, they make them more 3D, you're able to do a bit more movement with them. So I enjoyed the puzzles. I had a great time. I would have loved for them to have removed dialog from the front, so they didn't frontload it. Spend more time building out the actual plot, sprinkling out the puzzles better throughout the game. And I think then we would have been like math. It's whatever. But like, I don't think anyone would have been mad about it.

Gabe: 1:00:37

Midnight consume is almost too linear. Like Yes Nazis. Your games are kind of in a sense linear, but there still is a little bit of that sense of like open worlds. You're still kind of making your own decisions and doing things at your own pace. You're not. Forced down this one path in a specific order. And Midnight in Salem was very much that. And I think that was like a huge. Drawback, because some of the beauty of Nancy Drew is you. Like it's more realistic to a mystery, you doing bits and pieces and trying to figure it out and going back to here and then, okay, maybe I can do this now and that and that and that. You know.

Lauren: 1:01:20

It's because, say, a too many characters, not only did they have too many suspects, but we also had Nancy as the main detective. Then we had Deirdre as a secondary detective. And then we brought in Frank and Joe Hardy to be. Third and fourth detective and we transfer into Frank and Joe as we do things. Frank Joe did not need to be involved or Deirdre didn't need to be involved. Why did we have four different detectives? We never act as Deirdre. We call her several times. She's mean and sassy to us. She's the one who gets us involved in the mystery. She could have gotten us involved in the mystery with the phone call and then not been there. Like we didn't need to have her as a side character. We transfer into Frank and Joe several times during good puzzles. I don't know why we couldn't have transferred either into Deirdre or just kept as Nancy and let Nancy do the puzzles. I do not understand why we're like, Oh, we got to break them off. I. I don't get it.

Gabe: 1:02:29

To be fair, I do like that. Do you? Like, I agree with what you're saying, but I. I did enjoy that deja was there because. So many times in the series, she. She's almost like an arch nemesis to Nancy. Like, not quite, but. But almost. And you're just. You have I had such contempt for Deirdre, and I was as a sometimes I was ready to toss hands on her, especially the way she would come onto Ned like this. That's my Ned. Excuse me, lady. So I love that we finally got her. And to see her in a good light and to be able to talk and get to know her more and, like, form a connection with her and an actual genuine bond with her. And not just. So I liked that. Yeah.

Lauren: 1:03:19

But I also agree with you. Well, sign we can keep Deirdre. We can just get rid of the Hardy Boys, then. I totally have one. One of them needs to go. One of them can go. We don't need.

Gabe: 1:03:32

But also. I thirst trap the Hardy Boys a little bit. Just sayin. However, this this also extremely peeved me about the game that is so shady. I know you are not a fan of Ned. I love Ned. I feel like Ned was has been done an injustice throughout the whole Nancy Drew games like he really has. And I just want them to finally make the game where Nancy and Ned are together, solving a case for they can flesh out his character and we can grow to love him. And I hate that freaking midnight in Salem. He's being shady. I was like, Man, if you're cheating on me.

Lauren: 1:04:22

Oh, I'm about to.

Gabe: 1:04:23

Come over there. And part of me is as hoping that maybe this is the setup for the game where finally they're going to, because I think it's hinted at that maybe they need to go on vacation and obviously they go on vacation together. You know, what's going to conveniently happen. And so. If they make another game. I super, super, super hope the next game is finally Ned.

Lauren: 1:04:48

Absolutely.

Gabe: 1:04:49

I want Ned.

Lauren: 1:04:50

They say it multiple times in Salem. Yeah. About how. Nancy. Take a vacation. I think one of the final lines is she's promising, Ned, that the two of them are going to go away together. So absolutely. They set it up.

Gabe: 1:05:07

I, I thought so. But it was 2019 that I last played the game. So I was like, you know, three years. But yes, I yeah, I'm pretty sure they set it up so they, they damn well better do it. But also we've had I don't feel like we've heard anything from them. So is there even a chance of another game?

Lauren: 1:05:23

There are rumors about a variety of things. There are rumors that they have applied for a new name, trademark for a game. There have been, you know, ideas that maybe they are. Hyping everything up and getting ready to sell. I watch. Honestly, I think it's a smart move. I think if they are not happy with the money that they're making, just making their one brand, then I think it makes sense to sell the brand to a game company that creates games.

Gabe: 1:06:07

Yeah.

Lauren: 1:06:08

That can be like, okay, we're going to have Nancy Drew as one of our lines of games. I mean, they have no employees right now.

Gabe: 1:06:15

Yeah.

Lauren: 1:06:16

Just marketing people. Oh. So. They're going to outsource the games anyway. So I do think that they're working to really build up the brand and really make everyone happy and excited and rabid and foaming at the mouth for a neo-Nazi Nazi game so that they can. Get the hype up, get somebody really interested and then sell it off. I think that's. What they are hoping for?

Gabe: 1:06:50

I think it's entirely possible because. Partially when we've talked about this before, Nancy, you're started to gain traction on Twitch. And like I've been on Twitch for a long time and I have played the games off and on for a long time and you know. 2016, 2017, 2018. There really was not a whole lot like every time I looked when I played, there was not a whole lot of Nancy Drew. There's not a whole lot of Nancy Drew streamers. I wasn't getting people in happening to look for that niche game because like, you know, when you're playing that nature, you sometimes get a lot of new people coming in, whether they follow or not, but just coming in because that's like such a favorite game of them. And for them to see someone playing such a niche game, they get so excited. So like, that wasn't happening with Nancy Drew. And it was like 2019. There started to. It was like a ripple through everyone. The hype for midnight in Salem. Would midnight in Salem be good? Would it live up to the Nancy Drew? And it was like suddenly I saw some bigger streamers picking up the games reminisce, especially girl streamers or female streamers, reminiscing about, you know, the old times of like as a kid, you know, huddling together in front of a laptop with their friend playing the game. And there's like this week where I swear on everything, every person I saw suddenly had discovered shadow at the water's edge, and everyone was streaming it, and they were like, Man, I really love this. This is so good. Which granted, that is a classic. Like, I really love that one. They fully want the Japanese horror and I absolutely loved that about it. And and I was like, oh, my goodness. Suddenly people know Nancy Drew. I've never met another person who knew Nancy Drew except for like, you know, my couple of friends. And so it was like there suddenly there there's hype about it and then. Then nine Salem came out and it was it was actually huge. Like there is actually a lot of people and a lot of bigger people who who played it the day it came out like the second came out, started streaming it well.

Lauren: 1:09:16

They were doing, you know, promotions and contests and whatnot for people pre-ordering the game through. They do this for a lot of their games. One of my favorite things that they do is they routinely are like the first 500 people who order a preorder a game from like her interactive dot com or a specific game are going to receive a single Coco Kringle candy bar. It cracks me up. But they were doing Oh, it wasn't Midnight Salem. It was Sea of darkness. When they were doing Sea of Darkness, they were giving out Microsoft Services. They had a contest for preorders where one random person would win tickets to Iceland like. So they were doing a lot of those kind of promo pieces. And people, you know, had mixed feelings about those kind of big promos, especially when there was layoffs happening. Right.

Gabe: 1:10:13

The thing is, though, for at least from my perspective of what I was seeing on Twitch, the people who were playing it and suddenly playing it, they weren't following this like they weren't seeing all of the marketing. They were simply interested in it because they had heard the rumblings of the hype of the game. They had no idea necessarily what the Nancy Drew games were.

Lauren: 1:10:39

And it's spooky. It's about witches.

Gabe: 1:10:41

Yeah. Yeah. And like, some of them just had absolutely no context of Nancy's. You had no idea. But like, they heard the rumblings, there was the small bit of hype and somehow it had so much hype. There's so many I wish I knew. Like what? What? That the the category peaked at for viewers. Like, I really wish I would have looked because it was truly mind blowing. And then after that, there was suddenly like and and you talked about this when you were talking about your twitch journey. And the last episode there started to be a Nancy Drew stream in community. Like I after that, that game, suddenly people started screaming and more they started to think, just say to themselves, you know, even not very many people come and watch because of the nostalgia, because I love this game, I want to stream it. And we just, you know, you Ruby, Abby, a ton of people started streaming it and it was it was beautiful. I cried a little bit and like. Yeah, so I. I think they could get enough of the hype. They could show enough of the love for this game, for this series, for this character, that a company would buy the rights and take it over. My only worry is, would they do it justice? I feel like that would be the big fear.

Lauren: 1:12:12

I think hopefully enough people shared their feelings about Midnight and Salem that there should be a really good. Yeah. Should be a good amount of feedback to take on into the next venture.

Gabe: 1:12:26

What did you know about Amelia Darnell? Before I told you about this?

Lauren: 1:12:30

I have been hearing rumblings about Amelia Darnell pretty soon after I started streaming. Because right after I started streaming, Nancy Drew's. Because as soon as I started and joined this community.

Gabe: 1:12:44

The first it's.

Lauren: 1:12:45

Probably yeah, I.

Gabe: 1:12:47

Think I was because I think I had stumbled across this game before I played Salem. I messed up. I really must have. I think that's what happened. So yeah, because I was doing my first place, you're beginning to end going through each of the games and I don't know how I found it. I must have been Googling something about Nancy Drew. And I saw it was it was like a story about how talking about them, you know. Getting rid of firing or parting ways with Lani Manila. Wanting Manila. No. Yes. You struggle other than I like but anyways. And they talking about how she had started talking to. A group. I thought it was the community, but I guess maybe some of the original game devs also joined in. Yeah. And they had been, you know. They were they were upset about Melanie. Wanting to know why are you being laid off? And they were, I think, worried about the new game. And they're frustrated when the new game did come out and they had started working on a Nancy Drew ESQ game. And obviously the main character would be Amelia Darnell and is going to be voiced by Lonnie Manila. So we get we get Nancy Drew as a not Nancy Drew.

Lauren: 1:14:18

And but Amelia is going to be an early twenties female detective. So she did get aged up a bit. I think she works. She just. Graduated with her degree. Oh, my gosh. Hold on.

Gabe: 1:14:32

Yeah, I think so. But also I like that she's early twenties because to me, Nancy Drew was early twenties. Like even though I knew theoretically she was in high school, to me she was always early twenties, which for some reason as a child that made her more relatable to me. Like I like that she was like that. Don't ask me why. I don't know. But yeah. So I guess, yeah. I, she must be catering to the. The original Nancy Drew fans are like the people who grew up with him and aged with Nancy. And. There is a Twitter they give, I would say, semi-regular updates on it. You get little teasers of, you know, hour as they finish it or maybe some plot as they finish it.

Lauren: 1:15:22

Yeah. And they are airtight. Underscore alibi. Yes.

Gabe: 1:15:27

Which I thought was funny. It made me think about alibi and actions. Uh, I don't. I don't think there's a. Estimate for when it will be done. But I think they had made some like huge or monumental progress in the past couple of months, like got some much needed people working on it that they needed to. Maybe because this.

Lauren: 1:15:54

Is.

Gabe: 1:15:54

Not speed up the process but get things.

Lauren: 1:15:57

Yeah. Most of the people working on this, this is not their day job. So most of the people doing this are absolutely just and volunteering their time, putting in the effort to create a game similar to the ones they love.

Gabe: 1:16:13

Oh, and there is a demo. It's not it's not very long. It's like a ten, five, 10 minutes. But I thought I quite enjoyed the demo. I don't know if you've played it, but I was like, Oh, this is like a updated Nancy Drew game. So thank you. It definitely gave me hope for the game. And I'm I'm really excited for it. The Nancy Drew we didn't know. Or maybe the message we always wanted.

Lauren: 1:16:46

Yes, but no pressure to the team.

Gabe: 1:16:49

No pressure. No pressure. I think I think we're just we're going to have to do a part to later on because there's so much more we could talk about, about Nancy. But. I learned a lot. I don't know if you did. I. Learned a lot.

Lauren: 1:17:07

Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Now, I had a grand old time researching, and the.

Gabe: 1:17:14

Grand.

Lauren: 1:17:14

Old time reading old articles about what was going on when the new CEO came in. And, you know, the New York Times article calling Nancy the UN Barbie, which, again, fascinating. Oh, my God.

Gabe: 1:17:31

It truly is a rabbit hole going like looking at the company and watching her interactive and all the things they went through and the CEOs and how that affected things. But they still managed to do, you know, one or two games a year, which is wild.

Lauren: 1:17:46

And they had a tiny team, I think it was like 50 people maybe, um, who were putting out two games a year, which is. Incredible. But I mean, when you only have five characters in each game, it it makes a lot more sense versus midnight in Salem, where they had, you know, twice the size of the cast. And they had a bunch of locations, which you really didn't interact with. But they looked cool, I guess.

Gabe: 1:18:18

I think it's more meaningful when you have the smaller cast, like you really do get to know the characters grow attached to them, especially because. Like you see references to a lot of the people because there's so few people in each game. Like a lot of them kind of stay throughout the series. They may not. They're memorable lately, reappear in another game, but they will get referenced. Maybe we call them, you know, you know something. And so there's truly something special about having the smaller list and. And really bonding with the characters.

Lauren: 1:18:59

Mm hmm. And having them all be viable suspects.

Gabe: 1:19:03

Yeah. Yeah. All right. I think. I think we're ready for a tea party. Tea time. I need a sip. I'm parched.

Lauren: 1:19:11

We're really. I'm short little Tea Party, but. So I'm back in my hometown for, you know, how sitting at my parents. And we've been going out to dinner in a couple places. And the first place we went out to dinner, we were served by a girl who is, I think, a year younger than me in high school. And, you know, she had been a cheerleader and the whole thing. And we we recognized each other and she was really, really nice. And it was just funny because I hadn't seen her probably since before I graduated. So, you know, it's been 11 years. Not a lot of people from my hometown stay in the hometown. So it just always throws me. There is a there isn't really a 20 something crowd that lives there. So you it's really obvious when there is something there.

Gabe: 1:20:18

Is there a reason why people don't typically stay around?

Lauren: 1:20:22

Like it has really good schools. It. So there are a lot of families who want to be there for schools. But once their kids are grown, then the parents want to move. And so even if the kids, the grown kids are still living with their parents, then they all just scooch, which there is no reason to stay where they are necessarily without the schools because it's not super convenient to get into the closest city. There's just if you're not there for the schools and some other, you know, reasons, then there's not really a true reason to stay, especially if you're in your twenties and trying to go off and make a career and a life for yourself.

Gabe: 1:21:12

Why did your parents stay?

Lauren: 1:21:14

Well, we've been trying to get them to move for truly so long to get closer to us because it takes they don't live that far away, but because of the routes you have to take. It takes like 3 hours to get to their house. So it's truly an all day excursion. So my parents are always like, Oh, you should come over. You should come hang out, spend time with us. And I'm like, well, if you lived, you know, less than an hour away.

Gabe: 1:21:42

By an hour's. Okay. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Lauren: 1:21:45

An hour hour's fine. My sister moved, so she's 12 minutes drive from me. And so I'm over there all the time, and my mother is just so jealous.

Gabe: 1:21:54

Right. Come closer, Mom. Come closer. And you can join the slumber party.

Lauren: 1:21:58

You know, you can also come and hang out with my sisters, Don. So your grand puppies.

Gabe: 1:22:05

Because 3 hours turns into 6 hours, right? Because you're saying it's 3 hours one way. Yeah. Like that's half a day already gone. Just having to drive. Right.

Lauren: 1:22:15

So, yeah, it's madness.

Gabe: 1:22:17

They served you. You recognized?

Lauren: 1:22:20

Yes. So it was fine. I dropped my phone case into my pizza because I got nervous, but it's whatever. And I just wasn't expecting to see someone I knew, and so I just kind of. Anyway, it was a whole thing. And then we left from that place to go get a drink and dessert at another place down the street. And then one of the absolute most popular girls from my graduating class served us my cheesecake. And I she recognize me, but I don't think she knew my name because she did not use it. And I was like, That's okay, that's fine.

Gabe: 1:23:06

So did did she try to say anything to you? Did she give you any looks or was it just kind of like, oh, I recognize she was really friendly.

Lauren: 1:23:13

She was just like, oh, my gosh, I haven't seen you in so long. And so we had a lovely little chat. Just friendly, happy, perky, perky. Oh.

Gabe: 1:23:27

I don't know. I wasn't popular, but I knew. I knew every kid in my class, all 500 plus of them. At one point in time, I had a class with them. I talked to them and I was friends. Like friends. Not close friends, but friends with, I would say a vast majority of them, which is interesting because I had gone to a Catholic school case rate. So when I went to high school, I was like the new weird shiny toy. Like, What the heck? Because a lot of them had known each other, mainly from middle schools, because we only had two middle schools you come from, and a lot of them knew each other. So like a lot of people I knew like that, they didn't know me. However, I did know some of the girls because I had done a lot of in-house.

Lauren: 1:24:17

Sports.

Gabe: 1:24:18

In elementary and middle school. But it was yeah, it was very interesting. Freshman year was an interesting year, trying to get to know people, especially because for some reason, freshman year, every day in class was like, we're going to have a discussion or people have to be called to the front of the classroom and then they have to call on other people. And obviously because nobody knew me, they weren't going to call on. And like it was awkward because like you were required, you were essentially required to be called on when you didn't have the power to make sure someone called on you. It was it was absolutely terrible. But I do remember. His history this one day in history. One of the popular kids. He finally he had the bravery to call on me. He was like squinting at my name sign, trying to figure out how to say my name. And then he ended up sitting next to me and I. Ironically became kind of good friends. The popular guys like really jockey popular guys, and suddenly it was all okay. And I became friends with a lot of people and I talk to everybody and.

Lauren: 1:25:28

There is like a subsection of, like, popular jock guys who are really sweet. And they.

Gabe: 1:25:38

Like. Yeah.

Lauren: 1:25:40

Yeah. And they will be friends. With people and you're like, How are you doing? What's happening here?

Gabe: 1:25:48

Oh, I loved I loved them. I loved sitting next to in class. And they would so my last name I'm going to Dox myself was cool. And they would they thought that was so funny. And they were like, Quit. Quit fooling around or fool me once. Shame on you. Fool me twice. Shame on me. And like they they had a lot of they they went with it. And so I was often referenced as cool or I would hear that like shouted down the hallways. It really touched my heart. I felt like I was on the football team.

Lauren: 1:26:27

Just a star player.

Gabe: 1:26:29

I am I am one with the jocks. I'm getting called by my last name. I made it. Yes. It was truly so good. I would say my really good my really good friends for like. I freaking love the band nerds. I love the heck out of them. I was not abandoned. But those are the kids. Those are the ones. Strange but fun feeder. Love me my theater kids. Those are probably.

Lauren: 1:27:01

Yell at me. I was a theater kid.

Gabe: 1:27:06

Let's go love them. Those are like my sympatico. I was not in either of those things, but boy did I love those kids. And I loved going and supporting them. Going to the concerts, going to the theater. I was like.

Lauren: 1:27:22

That's my baby.

Gabe: 1:27:26

So. That's interesting. I was like, I, I like seeing people when I'm, like, walking around because I like a lot of the, like, parents stay in this town. The kids might not, but the parents do. So you'll see the kids in like. Like I see a lot of my classmates in like Target or whatever because they've gone shopping for their parents or whatever and. I don't know. I love it. It's fun to see where they've grown. And it always touches my heart that they remember me because a lot of them, like, we weren't good friends, but like. We were friends. And so I know I was like.

Lauren: 1:28:02

I touched your little heart.

Gabe: 1:28:07

I was also that kid. I was that nerdy kid who carried the popular kids because I did my homework and I did it well, and they definitely would come over to me and be like. So yes. Next episode, I guess. I don't know the way to talk about the like I think we're going to be talking about like what is gaming in 2020 to like what is gaming now? And that kind of makes sense. And like maybe like what's the current technology for gaming and like what's coming out this year and you know, what kind of that kind of stuff. Which I'm actually kind of excited for. Tell your friends. Tell your family. Okay. Yes. Please leave a review if you want that. Spread the love we want to use. I don't know. That's how I got I don't know what you give me an amazing.

Lauren: 1:28:58

I love it. Okay. We love you all. Bye bye.