Hello hello! This is a hot topic episode from Her Interactive's April Fools tweet to the new and upcoming streaming platform, Kick. We take a look at how Kick came about and it's controversial backers. Also, shoutout to Alyssa Finley our female developer spotlight.
You can send in your local tea to: nosidequests@gmail.com
Twitter: twitter.com/nosidequests
Instagram: instagram.com/nosidequests/?hl=en
Twitch: twitch.tv/nosidequests
Discord: discord.gg/MYkWFBwKnm
sweetie_potat
Twitter: twitter.com/sweetie_potat
Twitch: twitch.tv/sweetie_potat
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@sweetie_potat
nenyaadamas
Twitter: twitter.com/nenyaadamas
Instagram: instagram.com/nenyaadamas/?hl=en
Twitch: twitch.tv/nenyaadamas
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@nenyaadamas
Hello hello! This is a hot topic episode from Her Interactive's April Fools tweet to the new and upcoming streaming platform, Kick. We take a look at how Kick came about and it's controversial backers. Also, shoutout to Alyssa Finley our female developer spotlight.
You can send in your local tea to: nosidequests@gmail.com
Twitter: twitter.com/nosidequests
Instagram: instagram.com/nosidequests/?hl=en
Twitch: twitch.tv/nosidequests
Discord: discord.gg/MYkWFBwKnm
sweetie_potat
Twitter: twitter.com/sweetie_potat
Twitch: twitch.tv/sweetie_potat
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@sweetie_potat
nenyaadamas
Twitter: twitter.com/nenyaadamas
Instagram: instagram.com/nenyaadamas/?hl=en
Twitch: twitch.tv/nenyaadamas
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@nenyaadamas
00:00:10:04 - 00:00:14:29
Gabe
Hello. Hello. Welcome back to another episode of I Don't Believe in Side Quests, I'm Gabe.
00:00:15:24 - 00:00:16:17
Lauren
I'm Lauren.
00:00:17:13 - 00:00:59:25
Gabe
And we got...we got a lot to talk about. I think we've got some hot topics to talk about, some current topics to talk about. Before we get to that. Well, we're going to catch up anyways, but I, I, I saw the the the tweet pictures you had put there. And so because we had done the screen share last time and I didn't know how it went, I pulled them up on my tab just in case if we were going to screen share, and we were talking about them and I was looking at Board Gaming Mama's Twitter and I saw her - a tweet she had posted and it was like, I felt like, I don't know, you know,
00:00:59:25 - 00:01:17:22
Gabe
what really weird things happen in the universe and you're like, this is very strange. Yesterday I've been playing...On a whim I loaded up my Disney Dreamlight Valley, I was like I need to finish all the all the quests I haven't gotten to. I just want to finish them up. I want to get them ready and done.
00:01:18:04 - 00:01:38:06
Gabe
So when the next update happens, I'm ready. And as I was saying last night, I was like, man, I really wonder when the new update is, I'll look a different time. Today, I'm looking at her thing and she just tweeted that she's going to stream because the new Disney Dreamlight update dropped today! I was like oh...
00:01:38:06 - 00:01:39:03
Lauren
Alrighty!
00:01:39:03 - 00:01:43:27
Gabe
I could feel that the universe was talking to me.
00:01:43:27 - 00:01:44:12
Gabe
So far so good
00:01:44:12 - 00:01:53:05
Lauren
I get that feeling when I'm doing a crossword puzzle and I'm stuck on something and then I just walk away from it and then I run into the answers just like.
00:01:53:08 - 00:01:53:27
Gabe
Yeah.
00:01:53:27 - 00:02:09:28
Lauren
Organically out in the world. And I'm like, Oh yeah, that's what it is. And it's like, it's not just that something got triggered. It's like a genuinely see, like the word or read it or something. Yeah. Oh duh! It's funny.
00:02:11:17 - 00:02:23:02
Gabe
That's all I had for news. It just felt very yeah, very much like the very...the universe was talking to me. I'm supposed to be playing Disney Dreamlight Valley right now.
00:02:23:03 - 00:02:24:04
Lauren
What did I do this weekend...?
00:02:24:21 - 00:02:25:09
Gabe
A mood!
00:02:25:09 - 00:02:31:18
Lauren
I hung out with my sister a lot because she and her husband... did I tell you this? They bought a house!
00:02:31:18 - 00:02:33:08
Gabe
No, I don't think so.
00:02:34:00 - 00:02:54:16
Lauren
Yeah, so they bought a house. So that's going to be closing in the next couple of weeks. So in two weekends, we're going to move them all over and get that all done. So we're very excited. But she's moving... where she's moving... right now, she's like 12 minutes away from me and she's going to be moving
00:02:54:17 - 00:03:18:27
Lauren
So she's like 45 minutes away from me and it's like going to have to be traveling through a really congested part of the city. And anyway. So just very sad. Oh, I'm very excited for her because the house looks great. Like it's a wonderful location for them. The backyards amazing for their dogs. Like it's perfect for them. Yeah, but I'm sad for me.
00:03:19:19 - 00:03:27:10
Gabe
That's totally understandable, thats totally understandable. But, you know, congratulations to them. Yeah, yeah, congratulations.
00:03:27:11 - 00:03:29:29
Lauren
We're really excited.
00:03:30:25 - 00:03:44:21
Gabe
If you don't have anything else before we get into it, I'll say: sorry, side note I am sick, so please forgive me for my voice. If I blow my nose, I'll make sure to mute. And also this will be coming out after Easter. So to those that celebrate, happy happy Easter to you and.
00:03:44:21 - 00:03:46:04
Lauren
Hoppy hoppy Easter!
00:03:46:05 - 00:03:51:21
Gabe
Hoppy hoppy Easter. I can't. Yes, exactly.
00:03:52:19 - 00:03:55:23
Lauren
And I love Easter aesthetics if you...
00:03:56:11 - 00:03:58:12
Gabe
I can see that for you.
00:03:59:07 - 00:04:15:27
Lauren
See what's going on behind me. If you're watching the YouTube or if you're watching my twitch at any time, I've got carrots hanging behind me and they're little lights. At some point I have to get batteries in there so it can actually, like, light up behind me because right now they're just vibing.
00:04:16:02 - 00:04:16:16
Gabe
They're sort.
00:04:16:16 - 00:04:22:06
Lauren
Of got a variety of maybe I can just wear bunny ears this whole time that be fun for everyone.
00:04:23:18 - 00:04:34:00
Gabe
You can wear bunny ears in this one, or you can wear in the next one. When we talk about what we did for Easter, if you want, or both, live your best life.
00:04:34:06 - 00:04:37:07
Lauren
Well luckily I have 2 colors of bunny ears. I can do both.
00:04:37:09 - 00:04:48:26
Gabe
I think you wear the pink ones. This time for the true spirit of Easter. And then the next time we're talking about it. Yeah, okay. I think. I think so.
00:04:48:26 - 00:05:11:26
Lauren
I have so many like things I wear on my hat. Like, I've got antlers and I've got like a little Happy New Year tiara thing and I've got more bunny ears. How do I more bunny ears? And I just have so many things that I've just acquired over the years of streaming because that's actually what I wanted to talk about.
00:05:12:10 - 00:05:17:12
Gabe
I like how you say years.
00:05:17:12 - 00:05:18:18
Lauren
Because on April 4th...
00:05:18:18 - 00:05:23:26
Gabe
Like it's been *years*. Go ahead. On April 4th. I'm so excited... It's been April 4th?
00:05:25:02 - 00:05:31:29
Lauren
I'm aware. Yes. Oh, yesterday, April 4th. But I'm saying April 4th. Nobody's going to know what day it is when this comes out
00:05:31:29 - 00:05:33:06
Gabe
okay. On April 4th, Yep.
00:05:33:07 - 00:05:44:11
Lauren
It'll be on April 4th. It *was* my second anniversary of streaming Nancy Drew games.
00:05:45:11 - 00:05:49:15
Gabe
Yeah. Yeah, I thought it was your second year of kind of streaming in general though?
00:05:50:27 - 00:06:02:14
Lauren
Well, because my true streamiversary is in October. I just I played a bit, you know, played some Halo with Idaho.
00:06:02:14 - 00:06:03:02
Gabe
Oh, that's right.
00:06:03:02 - 00:06:19:28
Lauren
You played some Stardew Valley. But it wasn't until April 4th, 2021, when I first streamed my first Nancy Drew game. And then that's when I found my community you and I met. So
00:06:19:28 - 00:06:21:04
Gabe
congratulations.
00:06:21:04 - 00:06:24:09
Lauren
It was life changing. So I'd like to celebrate that
00:06:25:06 - 00:06:27:03
Gabe
Well deserved
00:06:27:03 - 00:06:45:05
Lauren
And that way I get to celebrate in October. And then my birthday, which is in January. And then my Nancy Stream anniversary in April. So I have a lot of parts of the year to celebrate, which is fun for me.
00:06:46:11 - 00:07:13:27
Gabe
I love that for you. I was not trying to be rude when I laughed at you. It just humored me because like I would say, I've been streaming for years because I'm at... I have to do math right now... six, seven? seven or eight? or something like that. So like when you, you say years. I think like like like three.
00:07:13:27 - 00:07:16:05
Gabe
Four or something, not like.
00:07:16:25 - 00:07:17:20
Lauren
Multiple!!
00:07:17:20 - 00:07:18:09
Gabe
But yes it has been...
00:07:18:19 - 00:07:21:10
Lauren
It's been multiple years! It counts!
00:07:21:28 - 00:07:48:01
Gabe
I'm sorry. I didn't mean to tell you I had it just gave me a chuckle. But no, I like that. I think it's appropriate. I think from my understanding, you started streaming more seriously in April than maybe you have in the past, too. So I think it's a very fitting anniversary and then it's perfect. And it's you, I think April's very you, to be honest.
00:07:48:20 - 00:07:49:13
Lauren
Okay!..?
00:07:49:20 - 00:08:11:16
Gabe
I don't know. I don't know exactly what I mean by that. But like, when you saying, like, that you love the Easter aesthetic and stuff? Like, I can see spring time being you and just like you're very, you know, spring to me, I think like we're bringing new life into the world. Things are like so you're like, you've made it over the hurdle of the dark side.
00:08:11:24 - 00:08:34:13
Gabe
The sun is starting to shine again. You're getting the beautiful new view, beautiful new life, new vibrant colors. You know, I think a lot of like kind of more pastels, light fun colors, which I think for me feels very you when I think about you. And so it's like the the the the rays of sunshine are breaking through in spring.
00:08:34:13 - 00:08:40:10
Gabe
And that's what I feel like you are. So that that's kind of what I like. I feel like April is very you.
00:08:40:10 - 00:08:42:16
Lauren
Wow <3
00:08:42:16 - 00:08:43:08
Gabe
sorry.
00:08:43:08 - 00:08:45:06
Lauren
That's so sweet!
00:08:46:05 - 00:09:13:04
Lauren
I feel like... I for a long time wanted to be like an October, like, kind of spooky aesthetic. Like, I think I wanted to be that person. And maybe it's just through my life as I've grown older and just learned more about myself. And I think it's also Idaho. Like Idaho, my husband's a really, really positive, just happy guy.
00:09:13:17 - 00:09:30:09
Lauren
And his favorite colors yellow because it's so happy, like. Yeah. And so just being around him and seeing the world through his eyes also kind of pulls me back from, you know, anything that I might be trying to.
00:09:31:06 - 00:09:37:22
Lauren
it... Doing things kind of starts making me feel like a poser in a way.
00:09:38:00 - 00:09:39:08
Gabe
I get you, I get what you mean
00:09:39:08 - 00:09:41:17
Lauren
Being really into like, you know, dark gothic stuff
00:09:41:17 - 00:09:42:23
Gabe
Imposter syndrome, like.
00:09:42:23 - 00:09:53:29
Lauren
Yeah, I guess. But it kind of feels like I'm trying to play the part of a person that I see myself as. As opposed to the person that I am.
00:09:54:09 - 00:09:54:18
Gabe
Yeah.
00:09:54:22 - 00:10:04:27
Lauren
And I feel like the people who I surround myself with now in life as opposed to people who I spent time with, you know, in college or whatever.
00:10:05:09 - 00:10:05:16
Gabe
Hmm.
00:10:06:20 - 00:10:11:07
Lauren
I think bring out the kind of springy sunnier side of me.
00:10:12:09 - 00:10:32:24
Gabe
I think like what you do...this is probably speaking more specifically this past October. I don't know if I remember the October before that per say, I think how you did it is authentically you like you did kind of a little bit of the spooky but you still kept the quirky, the sunshine, the light, the comfy, you know what I mean?
00:10:32:24 - 00:11:01:14
Gabe
And I thought that was very authentic to you, trying to be maybe a more spookier person constantly. And I, I think how you're doing it is very you how you've been doing it the past year. Sorry, my time before that's a little more fuzzy, but I think you've been changing it up was like adding the fun stuff with like your like things you put on your head, how you're displaying stuff in your background, like your carrots and all that.
00:11:01:14 - 00:11:24:03
Gabe
I think it's very you. I loved the fun emotes that you make for your chat and like you're constantly changing it up to what's relevant and stuff and I think you made a good choice with what you've decided to do. And I think the people who come into your stream see that, and that's why they stick around.
00:11:24:03 - 00:11:25:05
Lauren
Thank you!
00:11:26:06 - 00:11:26:16
Gabe
You're welcome
00:11:26:24 - 00:11:30:21
Lauren
This has been great. This has been a great episode. I think that's all we need to say, guys. I think we can call it!
00:11:30:25 - 00:11:44:12
Gabe
That's it. We did it, we done did it. No but we really can't though, because we have to talk about the Nancy Drew thing before we could cut it. Because before I saw this in here, I was prepared to open it and add this, so...
00:11:45:00 - 00:11:54:18
Lauren
Mm. Oh yeah. No. So I, I don't even know, I don't even know. Where to start.
00:11:55:13 - 00:12:19:02
Gabe
When I saw this. Let me just say, when I saw this, I was like, I fully believed. I was like, yes, we're getting another Nancy Drew game. I'm so ready. And then someone I don't know who was pointed out, it was April Fool's that day. And I was like a balloon that had been popped. But there is no amount to describe the deflation.
00:12:19:02 - 00:12:37:21
Gabe
I felt I was like and I immediately, quote tweeted this and @-ed you and Ruby. And I meant to @ Abby too and stuff. And I was like, like, if this is real, this is crazy. And then I think I reply to it and I was like, Oh, it's April Fools, but I'm sorry. Go ahead and give the guy now.
00:12:37:23 - 00:13:04:10
Lauren
I, I mean, if you're listening to this podcast and you know us, I'm going to jump on a limb and say you're aware of what's going on. But I interacted with who, as we've discussed, has not put out a game or really talked about new games since 2019.
00:13:04:10 - 00:13:05:08
Gabe
Oh yeah. It was during.
00:13:05:08 - 00:13:06:24
Lauren
Nigerians are saying islands.
00:13:07:06 - 00:13:07:25
Gabe
Yes.
00:13:08:01 - 00:13:34:20
Lauren
Out of years of silence they made a post or a series of posts, basically the on midnight in Pacific Standard Time on April 1st, they did a series of posts they like cleaned out their Instagram and just had one post on there. They posted on their newsletter and then they posted on Twitter.
00:13:34:20 - 00:13:53:21
Gabe
Okay, if we're going to go in that order, we should and I think point out that we are I don't know if this is true for you, but I saw this from Board Gaming Mama on Twitter. She's the one who wrote this out. Right. So you first brought up. Okay. I want to show the tweet. If you do show this, you don't show this.
00:13:53:21 - 00:14:11:02
Gabe
But it has all the stuff she had pulled. So you had the this was the newsletter, right? Happy birthday, Nancy. Celebrating 93 years established, 1930. She found something here, didn't she? Wait, I saw the words. So go ahead.
00:14:11:22 - 00:14:41:12
Lauren
April 28 is Nancy Drew the character? That's night, April 28th, 1930 is when the characters first launched. Right. So she's going to be 93 from when she first launched this April, right? Yeah, April 28th. And April is also fan month for Nancy Drew. So, sorry.
00:14:41:29 - 00:14:59:28
Lauren
Context for listeners. So there is a newsletter that was posted and then pieces of it went on to Instagram and the newsletter had a variety of trivia questions and then it had a letter.
00:15:00:11 - 00:15:27:06
Gabe
"Dear fellow sleuths, my birthday's coming up this month, and I've been thinking real hard about something I can give you, too. Thank you for coming along on every case. I've been told that I'm not the best gift giver, but I figured I could let you in on a little secret. I am picking up my magnifying glass again and already packing my bags. Join me on my next great mystery. Be on the lookout for our case file. I can't wait, love, Nancy."
00:15:27:06 - 00:15:33:27
Gabe
So the video. But the video didn't have the letters highlighted in red. That was the thing, right? It was this post.
00:15:35:12 - 00:16:09:16
Lauren
A specific Instagram post and the newsletter version of this letter has letters that are... most of the type is black, but there are some letters that are in red. And so you can read a special message in it. And and the letter said, "you've been hacked". But what I saw this letter on Twitter first and it did not have red letters on it.
00:16:09:25 - 00:16:36:09
Lauren
Right. So I was just like, what is this? So a Twitter user would just see a video of this letter and it was posted on April Fool's Day. And everyone is like, Hello, what? What are we doing? So that was exciting and cool.
00:16:36:15 - 00:16:50:11
Gabe
We have we have to read some of the... I don't know if you read some of the responses to it, but some of them were, were very funny. Yeah. There's no red, that's so... like what was the thought there.
00:16:50:20 - 00:17:13:05
Lauren
People were less than impressed with an April Fools post that look like it could be, you know, making fun of us, making fun of the fans, just joking around, having a little joke about there being a new game.
00:17:14:02 - 00:17:32:21
Gabe
This was the one that got me. "If the joke is that your fans are legitimately unsure whether you're making a new game or not because the first reference to one in years is being posted on April Fool's Day, you've done a bad job as a game production company." That was the one that sent me.
00:17:32:21 - 00:18:02:20
Lauren
Yeah. So so I would say there are some people who are doing positive responses are just like, oh my gosh, like if this is true, I'll be so excited. And I would say most of those people were people who make content or otherwise are people who want to be in Her Interactive's good graces and didn't want to come off as being rude to them.
00:18:03:05 - 00:18:34:21
Lauren
I basically stayed out of the whole thing. For me, when I saw it, I was like, it truly would be the worst decision ever if this was a joke. Yeah, I just couldn't believe it. I could not believe that it was a joke because Her Interactive...I, I it's right now it's basically just a team of marketing people.
00:18:34:21 - 00:18:57:27
Lauren
That's all that it is. And I just, I would be shocked to my core if a group of professional marketers for all of the lack of planning and lack of structure and whatever, I just could not believe that they would think it would go over well to make a joke like this where there truly was nothing behind it.
00:18:59:00 - 00:19:14:21
Gabe
No, I agree. I agree. And the best part was nothing. Absolutely nothing from them for three whole days. It wasn't til the fourth until we actually got to find out if it was a joke or not.
00:19:16:05 - 00:19:36:25
Lauren
That was the one part I could not believe. I could not believe that as soon as it became midnight, the next day, then they'd be like, it's true. We're doing that. Like something tangible. But no, we had to wait three days. And then yesterday, on April 4th, they came out with another video.
00:19:37:10 - 00:20:11:11
Gabe
Should we watch it? I haven't watched it....wait is this all it is? Oh, okay. Oh, wow. They really are...like, I kind of feel like they're mocking us? "Sorry, we aren't able to share any info at this time. Stay sleuthy!" Smiley face? Ok, buddy. "We're excited to announce we're officially working on a new game." That's it?? That's all this was??? Oh we didn't have to watch that.
00:20:11:11 - 00:20:14:04
Gabe
I'm so disappointed.
00:20:14:04 - 00:20:17:01
Lauren
I just wanted to see your face.
00:20:17:01 - 00:20:20:26
Gabe
Was it worth it? I hope it was frickin worth it for you.
00:20:21:24 - 00:20:41:24
Lauren
So four days after it was... three days?, I guess after the April Fool's shenanigans. A. Which... I didn't see them respond to anyone on Instagram or on Twitter.
00:20:42:22 - 00:20:43:26
Gabe
I'm pretty sure they didn't.
00:20:44:06 - 00:21:13:20
Lauren
From April Fool's Day. So, I mean, they got a lot of negative comments. I, I would have expected a little bit more work. Yes. And so the video, if you don't want to go look at it yourself, the video is a it it's a little animated laptop and words are kind of coming at the screen of just "is this an April Fools joke?"
00:21:13:28 - 00:21:16:09
Lauren
"Are you guys serious?" Just a whole bunch of...
00:21:17:00 - 00:21:43:22
Lauren
I don't know if they were direct quotes from what people are talking about or if they were just general vibes of people being like, Is this real? And then it types out what Gabe read out of the whatever and the "Stay Sleuthy" in that message, there are capitalized letters in there that say Salut. So everyone goes, Oh, a French game maybe?
00:21:44:07 - 00:21:46:06
Lauren
Dunno.
00:21:46:06 - 00:22:19:04
Lauren
But then they say yes, that a they're excited to announce that they are officially working on a new game. Not we're excited to announce that a new game is coming out. Not that, you know, not anything tangible, just that they're officially working on a new game. So I like... So they got more positive responses then because everyone's like, okay, well, you're not totally screwing with us, like something is happening.
00:22:19:23 - 00:22:23:12
Gabe
And I remember the last time we were told the new game was coming.
00:22:26:16 - 00:22:50:00
Lauren
And that's the thing like, I very much feel for Her Interactive because we know what kind of feedback they've been getting for years, for years and years and years, what kind of feedback they've been getting on the last thing they put out, which was the first whole game that was put out under their new leadership and with their new processes like.
00:22:50:00 - 00:23:26:28
Lauren
So I get why everyone would be really, really, really gun shy and like not like really wanting to make sure they're doing the right thing and really listening to people. And so I absolutely hope that the last few years have been spent doing a lot of reflection and trying to understand or get a better understanding of what people are wanting from these games and then being ready to implement that or getting the right teams in place to build that out.
00:23:26:28 - 00:23:34:14
Lauren
So that's my hope.
00:23:34:14 - 00:24:10:24
Lauren
That. is my hope. I also a lot of conversations have been going on like the Nancy Drew subreddit about all of the different clues and hints that could have been hidden in the Instagram stories or in the newsletters. I know in 2021 there was a lot of hubbub because Her Interactive had applied or had gotten a new patent for... patent? Is that what I mean?
00:24:12:22 - 00:24:15:19
Gabe
Trademark, patent. Trademark? Trademark.
00:24:15:27 - 00:24:38:23
Lauren
Trademark? trademark, yes. Yes, for Mystery of the seven Keys. So everyone was really excited about that and everyone was like, okay, so they got this trademark. So hopefully that means they're working on. And at that point, it had already been two years since the last Nancy Drew had come out. So everyone was like, okay, great. They are finally starting to make progress.
00:24:38:23 - 00:24:53:25
Lauren
And now two years later and again, I totally understand the pandemic came in, messed a whole bunch of things up. I got it. But there was a whole bunch of hubbub about the Mystery of the Seven Keys trademark.
00:24:53:25 - 00:24:57:21
Gabe
I think I actually kind of remember that when that happened. Keep talking about it.
00:24:59:14 - 00:25:00:18
Lauren
There's a new trademark.
00:25:01:09 - 00:25:01:17
Gabe
Oh
00:25:02:03 - 00:25:06:17
Lauren
Her Interactive has a new trademark from 2023.
00:25:06:29 - 00:25:08:12
Gabe
Okay.
00:25:08:12 - 00:25:22:23
Lauren
Called The Case of the Missing Clue. I talked about this theory or I talked about my theory on this, in on my stream yesterday.
00:25:23:00 - 00:25:36:13
Gabe
But the first trademark I wonder if that's for one of their marketer friendly games like you know how they have the the kind of branches off of like there's the codeine one and all of that. I understood that. But go ahead. Sorry.
00:25:36:13 - 00:25:41:05
Lauren
No, that's exactly what I was going to say, but reversed. So I think.
00:25:41:05 - 00:25:43:24
Gabe
Oh, you think the new one! that makes more sense.
00:25:43:24 - 00:26:15:28
Lauren
Case of the Missing Clue just sounds like something for a child's game. So I from my research of the current CEO of Her Interactive, she was really all about the coding app that they put out that taught, that was designed to teach kids age five and up coding and they would like help Nancy with like a science fair or something and learn how to code this robotic dog.
00:26:15:28 - 00:26:33:22
Lauren
And she was all about that. That's all she wanted to talk about. All of her interviews. She was just talking about that, she wasn't, you know, talking too much about Nancy Drew. She was talking about coding for this dog. And Nancy Drew was a character in this, but they weren't like solving a mystery.
00:26:34:06 - 00:26:34:17
Gabe
Right, it wasn't typical
00:26:34:17 - 00:27:11:14
Lauren
It was an app teaching, coding. And Nancy Drew was a character in the universe. So I'm wondering if it's kind of a maybe a big brother to that or something where it's maybe another thing of, you know, a kid doing some more coding again, like the you've been hacked or whatever whatever. So I don't know if it's like maybe they would come out with a Nancy Drew game and then have an adjacent app for younger kids or something that I, I think it sounds like something for children.
00:27:12:18 - 00:27:30:09
Gabe
And the first one sounds way more like the typical, I think Nancy Drew titles. Yeah. Yes, that's all I know.
00:27:30:09 - 00:27:33:27
Lauren
That's all we know. But it was truly the biggest story.
00:27:35:21 - 00:27:38:19
Gabe
There's something. There is something.
00:27:38:19 - 00:27:47:10
Gabe
Well, I saw you had put Kick in the script and if you looked, I mean, I told you, just.
00:27:47:12 - 00:27:50:27
Lauren
I thought we'd just tackle some hot topics.
00:27:51:12 - 00:28:23:08
Gabe
I went, I went, I went on a rant. I had to like, add a whole back... I'll try not to get too heated because the more because like I know a lot of the surface of it, the more I was reading. I was like, Oh boy. So if you don't know, Kick is a new competitor to Twitch. It's a new and ambitious platform that began operating in January 2023.
00:28:23:08 - 00:28:46:15
Gabe
Yeah, huge quotes on that one. I have never know if I'm going to share my screen for this, but if you if you look at it, it literally looks exactly like twitch. It looks like a hot mark off. I don't know if you've looked at it, but I did post pictures. It's twitch. If the base if like the base colors of twitch were kind of like black, gray and neon green, to be honest with you.
00:28:47:12 - 00:28:54:27
Gabe
It's isn't it's bad like the layout, all of it is twitch and.
00:28:55:06 - 00:28:57:21
Lauren
It looks like Minecraft letters.
00:28:59:24 - 00:29:01:05
Gabe
For the logo?
00:29:01:12 - 00:29:01:28
Lauren
Like the Kick...Yeah.
00:29:02:18 - 00:29:09:05
Gabe
Yeah. So that part looks different. I didn't necessarily mean the logo. I meant the website itself, you know.
00:29:09:05 - 00:29:14:03
Lauren
This is just more of like it feels like none of this is original.
00:29:15:27 - 00:29:20:18
Gabe
Like Mixer, I would argue, had more originality, way more.
00:29:20:18 - 00:29:39:15
Lauren
Yeah, I'm looking at it right now. And it does look exactly. And it's and I think it's like because it's also like green and black, which is also feels very minecraft. So it just feels like a minecraft like overlay skin thing that you could have modded twitch to look like.
00:29:40:16 - 00:30:05:28
Gabe
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I guess maybe to put this first stuff kind of is like if you're looking on the surface like Kick, the way you can try to attract people as they are offering 95% of the revenue from subscription. So it's a 95/5 split. Streamers get 95%. And like in comparison to Twitch, Twitch is a 50/50.
00:30:06:19 - 00:30:20:07
Gabe
We'll come back to that. Don't worry! for my understanding, you get 100% of Kicks which seem to like the bits equivalent on Twitch. So you get 100% of that. Yeah, what's up.
00:30:21:18 - 00:30:23:20
Lauren
Who... made Kick? Where did Kick come from?.
00:30:23:26 - 00:31:09:04
Gabe
Just don't worry. We'll get there. We'll get there. We'll get there. That was for. Don't worry. I'm not going to give my opinion. I'll just give it a... sorry. I'll, I'll start with the like, the facts or whatever you want to call it. So streamers should stream in 4K regardless of your partnership level. They were introducing a creator program which is supposed to pay streamers for each hour broadcast you're this is a quote a direct quote from... we'll get to that... "you'll get a steady income based on hours watched and total viewers you stream to with an option of being paid out on that same day."
00:31:09:04 - 00:31:22:00
Gabe
And then there is a fixed rate for a thousand ad views. And like, I'm not sure how that's all going to work out. Yes, yes. Oh, do you have a question? You have a comment.
00:31:23:09 - 00:31:34:09
Lauren
I'm... so I do compensation for work. So I'm just doing some calculations and trying to figure out logistically...
00:31:34:15 - 00:31:53:11
Gabe
You do that. We'll get there. You keep doing that. You keep doing that. Think about it. Yeah. Okay. So the first known streamer to switch was American Train Records, and he switched back in December 22, 2022, which was during like their beta testing era. I believe he helped them fix a lot of bugs during the beta testing.
00:31:53:11 - 00:32:21:05
Gabe
He wrote about updates and innovations on social media, and he's kind of become the combined role of like ambassador and community manager for the platform. Another, I think a high named person who went over there would be Adin Ross, who's one of Twitch's most controversial streamers. And I think at first it kind of started it was like when he was getting banned on Twitch, he would stream on Kick until he was unbanned from pushing him back.
00:32:21:05 - 00:32:44:23
Gabe
But then I think he's kind of mostly moved over to kick. Now for my understanding, there's other kind of higher names. I didn't write their names here. It didn't really feel very relevant, but there's some other higher named people who moved over there. It's not exclusive. Nobody exclusively streams with twitch except for maybe train, I guess. I don't know for sure, but I think he does exclusively stream on Kick.
00:32:45:08 - 00:33:28:24
Gabe
But everybody else is still streaming on the other platforms. And then I wanted to highlight kind of some of the other differences or like where they're trying to separate themselves to Twitch and then we'll get into where it gets really juicy and it all is like, Oh, so if you watch Twitch, you may have seen when there is the gambling era, maybe, I don't know if we'd call it an era, but where there's the gambling was hot and then there are some scandals kind of some stuff happened and gambling became a lot more limited on twitch.
00:33:28:24 - 00:33:36:25
Gabe
Twitch, really, I think kind of put the hammer down on it and was like, you know, we need to be a lot more careful about this.
00:33:37:19 - 00:33:43:06
Lauren
And I'm sure Amazon was just like, no. This is such a liability.
00:33:43:06 - 00:34:04:26
Gabe
Well, I think there was a big issue that was happening with kids and like it being, you know, like kids seeing this. And the the one issue of kids taking their moms credit cards and, you know, and all that. And I think that was a big thing. And kick seems to be, you know, very loyal to the gambling content.
00:34:04:26 - 00:34:22:11
Gabe
And from what I've seen and kind of my understanding, gambling is the most popular or more popular content there. The other thing about I was like, okay, Kick has a less strict moderation on sexual content.
00:34:22:11 - 00:34:22:27
Lauren
Nice.
00:34:22:27 - 00:34:24:08
Gabe
So yeah.
00:34:24:08 - 00:34:26:23
Lauren
Heading on over right now. Choo choo! Chuga chuga chuga chuga.
00:34:27:12 - 00:34:30:22
Gabe
I knew thats what was going to get you? I knew it
00:34:30:22 - 00:34:32:22
Lauren
I'm a Kick girl now. What can I say
00:34:32:22 - 00:35:12:16
Gabe
And I love that. I mean the sarcastic well, not sarcastically. So Kik is trying to position itself as a platform with a more fair attitude. Attitude towards streamers. Allegedly. There's going to be no ambiguity in the es, no unclear blocking of streamers or any selective restrictions by the administration. A clear dig at twitch. I think we can all safely say that as much as we may or may not love Twitch, one of their biggest issues is they can be very unclear in their rules and do not hold everybody to the same standards.
00:35:13:19 - 00:35:38:01
Gabe
And it just they'll do stuff and you're like, okay, makes sense. You didn't hear the why didn't you do this? And like, why? And that's okay because like, oh, we're not going to be like that. I think this is kind of also true on twitch feed. You have to be at least 13 years or older and if you're younger than 18, then you need special permissions from parents.
00:35:38:01 - 00:35:39:15
Lauren
...How?
00:35:39:15 - 00:35:39:27
Gabe
Yes.
00:35:40:09 - 00:35:45:16
Lauren
This is not your business, but like good luck in... for like how do you enforce...
00:35:45:16 - 00:36:00:07
Gabe
I know I didn't get into that part I'm sure. And they might have had more information on like how they're going to do that. I don't know. You know, ever. Yeah, well, what can you do? What can you do?
00:36:00:21 - 00:36:04:13
Lauren
I think I don't know. No one can do anything.
00:36:04:13 - 00:36:37:25
Gabe
It's, um. I'm trying to think about how the order I mean, how I'm gonna talk about this, right? So I saw the calculations in your head, right, of where my head was going. I don't think they're going to exceed, especially with how much money they're letting the creators take away. That just does not see how is that viable? How is that sustainable?
00:36:37:25 - 00:36:57:27
Gabe
Because I, I don't remember. But I think mixer in the beginning maybe I don't know if this is true for the be the whole time but I think they had started to they tried to do that kind of similar thing too because that is I think another issue with Twitch is their percentages in their cuts, you know what I mean?
00:36:58:10 - 00:37:26:04
Gabe
Like I think that's something that needs to be talked about. I think there needs to be more conversation on that. I don't agree with the 5050. Um, but I like truly, I really only think YouTube as of right now really has a shot at mainstream competition on Twitch. Facebook gaming, sure. But YouTube. Right. Has the huge advantage of it, already has a sustainable infrastructure.
00:37:26:04 - 00:37:55:11
Gabe
It truly has the infinite money that it can just keep funneling and funneling and funneling in. But most importantly, many people who are streaming ers, who take streamers streaming seriously know that you cannot solely rely on twitch like you have to have your fingers in a bunch of different pies. So what is a common side thing? Most streamers have, you know, they put clips on YouTube, videos.
00:37:55:11 - 00:38:03:15
Gabe
They make separate content for YouTube or post three post VODs or whatever. Right. They've already cultivated a base. Go ahead.
00:38:04:15 - 00:38:11:10
Lauren
If you're a content creator of any kind, you cannot be a content creator for only one app.
00:38:12:00 - 00:38:12:16
Gabe
No, you cannot
00:38:12:16 - 00:38:19:27
Lauren
Like you have to hit the Instagram and the Tik tok and the YouTube and.
00:38:20:06 - 00:38:20:21
Gabe
Twitter.
00:38:20:22 - 00:38:26:22
Lauren
Twitch, if that makes sense. Twitter. Yes and no. No one's making money from Twitter. But like.
00:38:26:22 - 00:38:37:04
Gabe
No, but but the but the point isn't necessarily always just the money is that it's getting the views, it's gathering people, it's getting stuff
00:38:37:04 - 00:38:37:25
Lauren
Building the community.
00:38:37:25 - 00:38:38:24
Gabe
There. Yes.
00:38:38:24 - 00:38:45:01
Lauren
In 12 different areas to bring it all back together. Hopefully it will remain.
00:38:45:19 - 00:38:46:06
Gabe
To your main
00:38:46:28 - 00:38:58:23
Lauren
on Twitch or on Tik Tok or wherever or YouTube, wherever. It's going to pay you the money for the looks and the clicks. Yeah, you got to pull them in from all corners of the universe.
00:39:00:18 - 00:39:42:13
Gabe
Because everything is so saturated now that you're just you're not effectively reaching people if you aren't posting on multiple platforms, different content, short content, long content, whatever. But right. The, the bonus of the YouTube. Right. And having the already viewer base that you've made when people like when twitch streamers or switching or do or whatever from twitch to YouTube, the the growth is not nearly as damaged or affected as if you were to move to mixer because you're quite literally starting completely over there.
00:39:42:15 - 00:39:44:17
Gabe
It's like this mixer or Kick.
00:39:44:17 - 00:39:44:22
Lauren
What is mixer???
00:39:44:22 - 00:39:56:09
Gabe
Mixer was before Kick. Mixer was I don't remember when this one mixer was, but Mixer was tried to be a competition to Twitch. They signed over Ninja.
00:39:56:28 - 00:39:58:28
Lauren
And oh yes, yes.
00:39:58:28 - 00:40:21:16
Gabe
Yes. Okay. Yeah, yeah. But like, you know, I should have put Kick there, not mixer. I was just thinking about mixer at the time, but it's the same kind of concept like you are starting from scratch. How many of your twitch is actually going to follow you there? Because it's not like how a bunch of them have already existing accounts that they can just be like, Oh, okay, know what I mean?
00:40:22:06 - 00:40:25:15
Gabe
A lot of people use Youtube accounts
00:40:25:22 - 00:40:51:02
Lauren
If and if someone's bought bits...Yeah. So what kind of money do it? Like, do I have to subscribe to somebody like on YouTube? You know, the basic subscription to people is free, so it's easy to just say, Sure, I'll follow whatever accounts you want and you can follow people right on Twitch and whatever. But like if you're following them to support them now, you're going to go and subscribe over here and do a variety of things.
00:40:51:22 - 00:41:21:01
Gabe
Mm hmm. Yeah. So the guy I was talking about first, remember train wrecks. He, since we were talking about the sustainability and stuff, he seems to think that all of those incentives are talking about all of the ways they were distributing money and stuff that they can use all of that to attract the best creators. Right. The best will see this and be like, oh, we want to go, you know, that's awesome.
00:41:21:01 - 00:41:39:13
Gabe
Let's go do that. Which will then in turn attract the best advertisers. And that's what will fund those crazy ambitions. Yes. I don't think, you know.
00:41:39:13 - 00:41:57:01
Lauren
If the audience is there, then advertisers will be there at that point. Why not just have advertisers be paying the content creators directly and not have it go through this big service?
00:41:57:01 - 00:42:18:26
Gabe
Well, because they need the cash flow, though, but they need to make money. Right. Having like when Twitch did the campaign with Coke when Coke did the huge gaming campaign on Twitch, Twitch is making money from that even though advertisers, you know, are working more directly with the.
00:42:18:26 - 00:42:42:14
Lauren
Streamers or whatever could go back. But I'm I'm just saying, if you want it to be, like, best for the streamers. Yeah, I think there could be a, you know, the advertisers and I understand, like having a middleman in there to say, hey, we're going to distribute what you're paying us to the streamers, who it's going to apply to.
00:42:43:03 - 00:43:04:08
Gabe
Well, I don't know. They're necessarily trying to be the middleman. It's just the thought that, like, that's what's going to fund everything that's just going to allow this all the work. Like that's where they're going to get the cash flow to do this crazy stuff is that the best creators and moving over is going to bring the best advertisers, which is who's going to put in these are going to be forking out cash, right.
00:43:04:17 - 00:43:33:03
Gabe
Because you know. Right Twitch has Amazon, YouTube has Google. Facebook has Meta. That is what funds them. Those are the three tech powerhouses that fund the three titans. I would argue the two titans. Facebook is in there, but I would say the two titans of streaming right. I had to put in this. I had to put it in the pun.
00:43:33:18 - 00:43:40:06
Gabe
Here's the *kicker*. Sorry. It's not funny but but it makes me laugh.
00:43:40:06 - 00:43:40:26
Lauren
Booooooo
00:43:40:26 - 00:43:52:27
Gabe
No, no, no. Kick is backed by Stake. If you don't know what Stake is, it is an offshore casino? Casino? That was backing Train.
00:43:53:07 - 00:43:54:07
Lauren
Oh so that's why we gamble!
00:43:54:25 - 00:44:03:20
Gabe
Yes. So Stake was banned on Twitch. If you didn't know when the whole gambling issue happened, Stake was banned on Twitch.
00:44:04:03 - 00:44:17:19
Lauren
To be clear, this is spelled stake like a wooden stake that goes in somebody's heart. Yes. And not like a beef steak that you eat. Because I I'm glad you wrote it down, because I truly was just like, what is this?
00:44:17:19 - 00:44:23:16
Gabe
No, because obviously gambling is a stake to your wallet. I'm sorry.
00:44:24:10 - 00:44:27:09
Lauren
You ante, you up the stakes too.
00:44:27:09 - 00:44:29:16
Gabe
Yeah, yeah, that too.
00:44:31:06 - 00:44:38:01
Lauren
I sort of been really excited if it was just like, Big Steak was....
00:44:38:01 - 00:44:51:08
Gabe
I hate you. I can't. So, do you know who coffeezilla is?
00:44:51:08 - 00:44:52:21
Lauren
No
00:44:52:21 - 00:44:53:04
Gabe
Okay,
00:44:54:19 - 00:45:01:13
Lauren
all of these names are brand new to me. It's great. It's fun. Who am I? How long have I been on this app?
00:45:02:21 - 00:45:03:14
Gabe
I sometimes.
00:45:04:01 - 00:45:04:26
Lauren
I'm a gamer :) hashtag
00:45:06:23 - 00:45:40:05
Gabe
I forget how like not in it. I'm not saying you're not in it, but I feel like I'm like like seven layers of hell in it. And then you're, I'm dragging you down, you're up at like level one. You've been brought down to like level three. And now I okay. Well, coffeezilla, I don't know a whole lot about them, but they, I'm trying to - how do I say this?
00:45:41:14 - 00:46:20:06
Gabe
When I really started to learn about them, they called out the Logan Paul cryptocurrency scam. Right. So that's kind of like their thing, I think is, is calling out stuff that maybe influencers try to hide or try to make it seem like, oh, like, I really do mean this, but it's not right. Okay. So they he posted (I think it's a he...they? I'm going to say they because I don't know for sure) posted a tweet... okay. Trains, "Trainwrecks new platform is owned by wait for it, dot dot dot, Stake that's why Kick is paying and saying creators splits. They're owned by an offshore casino, laugh my ass off and it's the reason train is
00:46:20:06 - 00:46:38:11
Gabe
moving to continue this Stake cash cow. I wonder why train didn't tell people that." Right. Okay so this casino company is basically making us like they didn't make Kick, but by, you know whatever they're making it's.
00:46:38:11 - 00:46:39:01
Lauren
Funding?
00:46:39:08 - 00:46:50:03
Gabe
By funding. Yes. They're making a streaming platform by gamblers. For gamblers. I mean, that's literally what this is, is a platform similar, you know, and to promote gambling
00:46:50:03 - 00:46:50:26
Lauren
Some stripping???
00:46:50:26 - 00:47:04:07
Lauren
I mean, hey, I'm just saying it's a party platform. I love that for them. That's a good time. That's a good time. They got to start selling and advertising cigars. I'm looking for.
00:47:05:17 - 00:47:07:06
Gabe
Smokes. Just gift.
00:47:07:07 - 00:47:09:01
Lauren
Big gold coins. I don't know.
00:47:09:12 - 00:47:10:04
Gabe
Chips.
00:47:11:03 - 00:47:12:22
Lauren
Chips. Yeah.
00:47:13:04 - 00:47:19:03
Gabe
And not the kind you eat. Ones used to gamble. Sorry.
00:47:19:25 - 00:47:25:24
Lauren
You know, a little chips and salsa with your steak? I mean, maybe I'm just hungry?
00:47:27:13 - 00:48:05:22
Gabe
Its the carrots behind you, you keep looking at them and you're like, oh, you're getting a little, a little famished here. Mm hmm. I just. I can't. I can't. It, as as much as I have grievances with Twitch, I was glad when they put a lot more stricter stuff on gambling. Twitch, Twitch is a huge, it's a huge platform and there's so many vulnerable people there.
00:48:05:22 - 00:48:28:05
Gabe
But specifically, there's so many children brought to it and attracted to it. And like watching these people on it and like these people are like their heroes. These influencers have become modern day heroes, for better or for worse, to the younger generations. And they're like close enough to them, you know, and they're going to see this gambling and think they should do it or could do it or want to be a part of it and all that.
00:48:28:20 - 00:48:58:21
Gabe
And like they don't, they don't know better. And, and they don't know how to think about this kind of stuff critically and like to be skeptical and all of this. And I just feel like it's taking advantage and the same thing when we had all the like sexual content issues on Twitch, that really bothers me and that like I get it make make your mark I have nothing against sex workers or any of that and I'm not saying those people on Twitch aresex workers.
00:48:58:21 - 00:49:08:17
Gabe
But like any of that kind of stuff, like I have nothing against that. But there are places for it and I don't think twitch is it, you know.
00:49:09:07 - 00:49:26:05
Lauren
I mean if they're going to have a whole bunch of things that Twitch is not going to allow great. Like I understand that kids are going to go and watch it and that's...
00:49:26:22 - 00:49:40:19
Lauren
Kind of a parent issue of, okay, then you need to be aware of what your kids are doing. Put your parental blocks on, like it doesn't make sense to me necessarily. It as long as... Okay.
00:49:41:12 - 00:50:10:07
Lauren
Changing my tune, so right now they say 13 and up right. I think if they really want to go like whole hog into this like, nope, this is going to be like having all sorts of entertainment that's, you know, gambling and be open to a variety of entertainment options. I think they should do a adults only, I think it should have I think it should not be for 13.
00:50:10:07 - 00:50:13:03
Lauren
I think it should be 18 and up or 16.
00:50:13:03 - 00:50:13:11
Gabe
Yes.
00:50:13:11 - 00:50:25:16
Lauren
Or whatever. I think if they're going to go that direction, I totally support them going that direction. But I don't agree with their 13 in a policy degree.
00:50:25:28 - 00:50:54:11
Gabe
Yes. And I've been on Twitch a long time. Not since the beginning, but a very long time. And like gaming is what it was for it. And I don't think gaming as much so twitch solely has to me. I love that we have the IRl stuff because people are more than just that, It makes it competitive with YouTube.
00:50:54:16 - 00:51:23:12
Gabe
But like I think you're right, the original pull of Twitch, besides it being the gaming is this is the life interaction and the organics of that and the and the purity of that, of having the live interactions with people and live experiences together so that I love that they expanded beyond gaming to the IRL stuff. I mean, we've got the creative, the on the creative side, the art, cooking and all that.
00:51:23:12 - 00:51:24:20
Gabe
You get traveling
00:51:24:20 - 00:51:26:20
Lauren
music.
00:51:26:20 - 00:51:44:07
Gabe
I love that, believe me, I love them. And I know not everyone who does those stuff are gamers or do any kind of gaming on Twitch. But I think by adding that they allowed for people who do do gaming on Twitch to have more to show more sides of them.
00:51:45:02 - 00:51:55:06
Lauren
Hmm without having to switch over to YouTube to do creative things that are outside of Twitch but they want to continue to share with their community.
00:51:55:24 - 00:52:40:26
Gabe
Yes, I just don't feel like because we did that, that means we have to have all the sexual stuff, like the pools and the hot tubs and all that. Like if you're traveling right, you go to the beach, you got your swimsuit on, you know, doing whatever. I get that. That makes sense. That's fine. I understand that. But the the other stuff, I just I think there are platforms for it, better platforms suited for it, and that's where they should be, especially with the ages allowed on Twitch and kind of I think the kind of atmosphere they were originally trying to cultivate and I don't know what which is trying to do it, but I
00:52:40:26 - 00:53:20:07
Gabe
think what would. Yeah, I just part of me hopes kick survives in the sense that like Twitch needs some true competition. They need the fire under their bums. They need to feel the heat, they need to be worried. They need be pressed to do better. That's what I think Twitch needs. I don't like the gambling stuff with kids so that part of me is like I don't know if I want them to succeed, but I want I do.
00:53:20:07 - 00:53:50:15
Gabe
I want something to happen that's going to cause twitch to want to do better for its creators, for the community and just just be all around better. Because I don't know, man. The new CEO, though, is something else. So maybe he honestly maybe he's just going to crash twitch into the ground and maybe kick is going to surpass and I really TBD, I don't know.
00:53:50:16 - 00:54:11:16
Gabe
I know so many people who are trying to like go over to kick like smaller streamers and stuff and like trying to make it big and all that. And I just I don't know. I don't know about that one, Chief. Kick's less saturated. Sure. But you're also not getting the viewer base that you get on twitch. I don't know.
00:54:12:15 - 00:54:16:11
Gabe
You go ahead and tell me your thoughts.
00:54:16:11 - 00:55:15:26
Lauren
Yeah, I think for me, the non maybe what we'll call the inappropriate side of Twitch and the non or the adult entertainment outside of Twitch, the adult side, I think if it wasn't popular then it wouldn't be visible. I think they definitely highlight a lot of videos that are, you know, really, really popular and a lot of people are there and a lot of their adult friendly entertainment is really popular.
00:55:16:16 - 00:55:18:22
Lauren
And so I think having.
00:55:19:24 - 00:55:22:29
Gabe
So they definitely make huge cash from it.
00:55:22:29 - 00:56:01:24
Lauren
They make huge cash. I mean, they have a lot of viewers, so I'm sure they make a lot from or that twitch makes a lot of money off them too, which is again why they are continuing to do what they're doing. And Twitch has little desire to get rid of them. And also, I mean, I think it's hard because I know children, if if children if 13 and up was not or was easier to actually enforce.
00:56:01:24 - 00:56:30:02
Lauren
Right. So if it if it was like, okay, well, 16 year olds and like can see everything, I don't think it would be a problem, you know, and I understand that like young kids can get on there and see whatever they want to see. And I just I don't think that's a reason to kind of take things off. I don't know.
00:56:30:11 - 00:57:15:03
Lauren
I don't know if that makes sense. But I think what children are again, I understand there's a interest in keeping kids and keeping them away from things that we believe might be damaging. But I also think that there's just a lot of letting people who are not children live their lives and do what they want to do and have adults in the child's lives, be the ones to keep track of what the child is doing rather than stop other people from doing what they're doing.
00:57:15:24 - 00:57:28:28
Lauren
Just in case a child is unattended and goes and looks at them standing in kiddy pool of water.
00:57:28:28 - 00:58:20:07
Gabe
I mean, that's a fair take. That's a fair take. I think another issue I have with it, though, is it's not easy to be a female in the gaming industry. And I say that with I'm not an expert, I'm not a professional, but with a lot of experience and being in all genres and niches of the gaming industry and having been a gamer for my entire life and like I think sometimes that kind of content further perpetuates certain stereotypes about female gamers and female streamers and stuff.
00:58:20:25 - 00:59:05:28
Gabe
And that I also feel, I don't know, that really frustrates and bothers me. I feel like some of that stuff is damaging to and you know, I don't know, it's just something that I find very frustrating and it brings further harassment to other female gamers and female streamers. So like, I get what you're saying and I can also understand the point of view of like, is the jobs to monitor what their children are consuming for.
00:59:05:28 - 00:59:46:00
Gabe
Part of me hears and I think about like all of the awful things on YouTube that were like so easy for children to see and like, are we just going to say, well, that's okay to be there because it should be the adults job? I don't know how to have an conversation on this, so I'm trying to be careful what I say and I'm trying to like, but just I, I don't know, I just feel like there's other things, you know, like there's only fans now.
00:59:46:00 - 01:00:13:11
Gabe
There's FanHouse, there's all these things if they want to do that. So why does it have to be twitch? And I get that twitch keeps them around because because of the money or like is there a way to me be like, sure, okay. Let's say we want to keep it a part of Twitch, right? Is there a way to separate it more within the website?
01:00:13:11 - 01:00:26:10
Gabe
So it's not so easily accessible to children or so easily viewable by children like I, I don't know. I'm not saying the answer is for a child to be gone, but just like.
01:00:27:22 - 01:01:18:25
Lauren
And that's how I feel about the YouTube piece of that is that the YouTube algorithms sending like things that get progressively more damaging or send kids down a pipeline or do whatever, like YouTube's algorithm is sending those videos to people. The Twitch algorithm is suggesting popular videos regardless of what they are to kind of all accounts. So I think there definitely is a, you know, do again, is there like an age thing where it's just like, hey, we can because you can say like, yes, my twitch stream is going to be or should be 18 and up, but there's no way to enforce it
01:01:19:07 - 01:01:19:15
Gabe
Yeah.
01:01:19:18 - 01:01:27:15
Lauren
and people can just say, okay, that's fine and just move on. So I think if.
01:01:29:20 - 01:01:30:09
Gabe
You can't enforce it.
01:01:30:09 - 01:01:30:25
Lauren
There was a better.
01:01:30:25 - 01:01:54:29
Gabe
Way to force that but Twitch does or they used to encourage where if you marked yourself as 18 up right, and you had kids coming and saying what their age was and talking about their age, they encourage that you would ban then from the channel or like tell them like they can't really be here and all that kind of stuff.
01:01:55:28 - 01:02:00:16
Gabe
But yeah, I mean you can't, you can't enforce it. Yeah.
01:02:01:11 - 01:02:38:20
Lauren
I think there could be a segment of Twitch that like you could specifically, you know, have available for children or like I don't know. But again, for me this feels so much more like so do you want to either say no, this is going to be only a family friendly site with only family friendly stuff available? Or is it going to be open to all creators and viewers are going to have to be the ones to manage what they're viewing.
01:02:38:20 - 01:03:11:27
Lauren
Again, I think the algorithms do push different things based on popularity, and there may be certain things that are really popular that may not be as appropriate for children. So I think that's definitely a piece that Twitch could work on. But again, kids are going to get on the Internet and they're going to lie. And so if the only way to do that and say, well, we're going to sanitize or like make this fully family friendly, I don't agree with that because I'm not family friendly.
01:03:12:00 - 01:03:36:25
Lauren
So I, I know it's a different way, but like, still, I don't know. That feels like a weird but I know I'm not a fan of that. I wouldn't support Twitch being like, Well, we're going to be fully family friendly because we know kids could watch.
01:03:36:25 - 01:04:16:24
Gabe
No, Twitch can't do that, they can't do that. They can't go that way now with the different streamers they have and the top streamers just ignoring the sexual content. But like, yeah, like they couldn't, they couldn't do that. So I don't know, I don't know what the answer is, but I think it's something that should be talked about and talked about more and I personally firmly believe that an, as an influencer or celebrity, whatever is that when you are that you are in a position of power.
01:04:17:06 - 01:04:57:01
Gabe
And I think you need to have responsibility and like I know that's hard take I know that's controversial. I know people don't agree with that. But that is what I firmly believe. And stand by that. When you are in that position of power, you have to handle it with responsibility and you have to think about those things. And I think I feel these things even stronger from being a teacher, from having worked with a lot of kids who have gone through abuse, having worked out to women's shelter and all of that, and having seen some really horrific things, I just feel very strongly about this.
01:04:57:01 - 01:05:31:09
Gabe
I very strongly want to protect children and their innocence. And so that's probably partially why I really feel the sexual content shouldn't be on Twitch because of kids going there. But the also there's the dual factor of just like when that became a really huge thing, there were, you know, tirades going into female streamers and like degrading them and saying things about how they look and how they're streaming.
01:05:31:09 - 01:05:57:10
Gabe
And like, if you show even a little bit of skin, even if you're not trying to be like some of the super sexual people, you, you get all of this, this hate and nastiness and I don't know, I think it's a really hot topic. And it just it makes me really it makes me really sad. I get where you're coming from.
01:05:57:10 - 01:06:01:12
Gabe
I think what you're saying is very valid. I'm not trying to say that it's not.
01:06:01:12 - 01:06:32:05
Lauren
I think what you're saying is very valid. Like, again, I very much agree that I don't want children to be exposed to everything that adults... It's okay for adults to be exposed to it. I think there's a reason why they're 18 plus things and there are things that are 13 plus. I think there's should be a decently clear divide there on, you know, what's available.
01:06:32:05 - 01:07:21:28
Lauren
But I also fully acknowledge that it's hard to enforce things and stop children from seeing what they want to see and I don't know, yeah, what the answer is on should people stop doing things that are not appropriate for a 13 year old to see just because they're on the same platform? Yeah, that's my $0.02. My other thought was that, yes, female streamers definitely like there have been so many like bot attacks and whatever.
01:07:21:28 - 01:07:38:00
Lauren
I just don't know if if there were no streamers, no female streamers who are showing skin on the platform. I don't know if that would solve the problem. You know, I think.
01:07:38:02 - 01:07:38:25
Gabe
I don't know if that would solve it...
01:07:39:02 - 01:08:12:07
Lauren
People would still act that way. People would still react out that way because elsewhere on the Internet, there are women who are not wearing clothes. And so I think, sure, there are people who are not wearing clothes on this piece of the Internet as well. But I don't necessarily think that is a key driver or would be a block if that stopped happening.
01:08:12:07 - 01:08:38:15
Gabe
I would have to go look because I don't have any stats or anything on hand. But I think if I remember from some of the about this when this was a more hotter topic that like there was actually an increase in that obviously there was already hate and and whatever. But this, if I remember, did actually create an increase.
01:08:38:15 - 01:09:20:28
Gabe
Don't, don't quote me. I could be wrong in these kinds of things happening in a more frequency. And I would like to clarify that I'm not I'm not saying like showing any skin is as bad or wrong for children to see. And I'm not even necessarily saying a girl sitting in a hot tub is bad. It was when some of those women were also doing well in the hot tub where I'm like, But why, though?
01:09:21:09 - 01:09:21:26
Gabe
But why?
01:09:23:02 - 01:09:27:20
Lauren
Because she's going to make money.
01:09:27:20 - 01:09:40:29
Gabe
Yeah. Sometimes I think I don't have the right morals to be an influencer, to be honest.
01:09:42:01 - 01:09:43:13
Lauren
You gotta sell what you've got.
01:09:44:08 - 01:10:10:25
Gabe
I'm a little I'm very firm in my beliefs and my more not saying those people aren't, I'm talking in general I don't think my morals are very lackadaisical and I think there are a lot of influencers who have some lackadaisy morals and ethics, but there are also plenty who have I think are really good and they're really pure of heart.
01:10:10:25 - 01:10:13:26
Gabe
But whatever it is, it is what it is.
01:10:14:14 - 01:10:17:10
Lauren
We do not have a transition :)
01:10:17:10 - 01:11:09:10
Lauren
so we are going to do our female developer spotlight. And so today we are going to be focusing on Alissa Finley, who you may know because she was the project lead for BioShock one and two. She's an American producer and creative director for a ton of other sci fi games. She got her degree in computer science and wanted to play video games and found a job at a company that eventually became Stormfront Studios, who are the creators of an email video game called Rebel Space. They're... in the eighties and nineties, because they started out before email became a thing, they started out doing turn based games that could be done
01:11:09:10 - 01:11:38:20
Lauren
over paper, so players would mail in a a form or whatever where they had filled out all of the pieces of their turn. And so they would mail that into the game company or people who were running it, who would then take a couple of days and then send a return document, was talking about what else was going on in the game so that they could be ready to make their next turn.
01:11:39:03 - 01:12:02:19
Lauren
And when the email came out, that got to be able to transition on to email. So obviously things moved a lot faster. There were a whole bunch of forums set up so people would meet up and would just spend all day talking about what their gameplay was and what their roles were and just really building out that community anyway.
01:12:03:03 - 01:12:41:25
Lauren
So Rebel Space, which is... it was the second play by email game that was offered as part of a major commercial service, and it launched in 1992. And the premise was that a galaxy spanning empire was in terminal decline and 40 commanders of empire fleets were the seeds of possible new empires. It just sounds very interesting. I'd love to know more, but so she was she had been playing email video games in high school, and so she was finishing up college trying to figure out what she wanted to do.
01:12:41:25 - 01:13:18:28
Lauren
And she was a computer science major and she interviewed at Stormfront Studios because a friend of hers was like, hey, come down to California and hang out. And so she met Stormfront Studios and the CEO hired her. And so she finished out the rest her college degree, I think, online or something. And she just started working. So she started out by working on some customer service aspects of the email video game where she was generating messages for the game.
01:13:18:29 - 01:13:44:02
Lauren
She was helping dealers deal with player issues and then moved into kind of scheduling updates. And eventually, after some time and her experience in computer science, she became their head of programing. A few roles later, Bam, bam, bam, bam. She became the technical director at Lego. Yes, LEGO. That Lego
01:13:44:02 - 01:13:46:03
Gabe
The only Lego. Well. Mm.
01:13:46:25 - 01:14:07:18
Lauren
Yes. So there was an article I was reading that said she was in this stage when she was at Lego, she was cultivating new skills that had little to do with programing and that she herself recognizes. in Women In Gaming: "That turned out to be her greatest professional qualities. She said, Hey, programing is not my strong ..."
01:14:07:18 - 01:14:08:12
Gabe
I feel that, sister
01:14:08:12 - 01:14:09:12
Lauren
"...over time I realized..."
01:14:10:17 - 01:14:36:25
Gabe
Yeah, I'm sorry, Iiiii, I feel that. I had to take that for engineering and shout out to you, Professor. I will not name you. He, bless him, he passed me because he knew I tried my hardest. I gave him my all. I did not slack off no matter how awful I was at it. It was a general you had to take for all engineering and I don't have the brain for programing.
01:14:36:28 - 01:14:50:03
Gabe
I just don't I can't see. I can't touch it. I can't reach it and make sense to me. So I feel that I'm sorry.
01:14:50:03 - 01:15:13:06
Lauren
So after she said programing is not her strong point, "over time I realized that coordination, planning and methodology were my strongest points. My programing has served to give me a context and credibility in the interactions that have to do with my passion." And I love that so much because very much, you know, she started out and she was just like, Great, I'm going to learn all these things.
01:15:13:06 - 01:15:33:11
Lauren
I'm going to be head of programing and going to go over here. And then she realized, Hey, I like managing. I like doing the coordination, I like doing more of the people side. I feel like moving more into the people side of things is something we don't get to hear about as much. And so I really loved hearing about that.
01:15:34:02 - 01:16:01:28
Gabe
I would like to add, just for all you people out there, this something my dad would say is super huge too. So he's works in the IT of Delta, pretty high up in that. And like he truly respects the people that take the time to go and kind of - right, so he works with the business of Delta and like all the different stuff, right?
01:16:01:28 - 01:16:38:17
Gabe
He's not just solely working with I.T people, even though he's doing the IT and the people who in the business took the time to go and learn some IT and understand it so that they can talk about it in, you know, a higher intellectual conversation. He truly, he respects that. And I think that's something that's important to just take away for people in general of, you know, you don't have to have a lot of knowledge or anything in other areas of whatever that you're working with.
01:16:38:17 - 01:17:02:13
Gabe
But if it's not your core, like don't be afraid to kind of get some base knowledge so that you can understand and communicate better with those people are talking about to you and you can connect better with them because they're like, Oh, these people are like, You're actually listening to me. You're actually understanding. We can actually talk about that and it just can really improve group work.
01:17:02:14 - 01:17:08:06
Gabe
I'm sorry I had to do that for my dad because he talks about that kind of stuff all the time.
01:17:08:06 - 01:17:42:26
Lauren
Well, I mean, we've run into the same problem in h.r. Where h.r is so siloed a lot of the time, like working with a lot of individuals. And so we have to have kind of either scheduled meetings where people from other departments come in and tell us a bit more about like what's going on and what their department's up to or my job allows me to spend a lot more time talking with managers about again, structural and like job descriptions and stuff.
01:17:42:27 - 01:17:58:01
Lauren
So I, I don't know, like the coding and all of that, but I'm, I have good understandings of what each person does in their day to day more than I have in previous roles.
01:17:58:13 - 01:17:59:26
Gabe
Mm hmm. Yeah.
01:18:00:17 - 01:18:42:21
Lauren
So after spending time at Lego, she then went to Irrational Games and was the project lead for 2007 *BioShock*. BioShock conquered the critics where it garnered praise such as "I never thought that someone could create a fun and immersive video game around the fiction and philosophy of Ayn Rand, but it's basically what 2k games, has done a unique and mature title that manages to make you reflect while you play" or "smart, beautiful and sometimes terrifying", and also won several awards, including Best Game at the BAFTAs, Game of the Year at the Spike TV Game Awards.
01:18:42:21 - 01:19:13:24
Gabe
BioShock was a - it's a beautiful game, such a good game. I would recommend to honestly anybody it has I think a ton of different flavor of genres. You got the sci fi, you're having, the action, the adventure. You know, this got it all. It's a really great game. They're all really great games, actually, honestly. BioShock two, BioShock Infinite, can we get another one?
01:19:13:24 - 01:19:16:05
Gabe
Can we have another BioShock?
01:19:16:05 - 01:19:17:16
Lauren
Hey Alyssa. Alyssa. Can we get another one?
01:19:18:09 - 01:19:19:09
Gabe
I know. I know.
01:19:19:13 - 01:19:31:11
Gabe
Please. Please. Dude, that's such a crazy life she's lived! Email video games to Lego to BioShock. What's next, what more is there?
01:19:32:10 - 01:19:57:07
Lauren
Well so then she started her own company called 2k Marin where she was studio head and executive producer. After a few years, she moved over to Telltale Games, where she was a producer and creative director. So she was director of production for Tales from the Borderlands. She is executive producer and director of production for the 2014 Game of Thrones.
01:19:57:18 - 01:20:18:22
Lauren
She was director of production for Minecraft Story Mode in 2015. And I quote that I really loved is that her daughter plays Minecraft a lot and participated in the story mode task. "Before I got involved in the project, I was very excited about the game. It also made me see that outside of my time with Legoland, Lego Lab and Zowie.
01:20:19:04 - 01:20:36:09
Lauren
I had always worked on adult games that I could not share with her. Microsoft Story Mode changed all of that and served as a bridge for my daughter to try out the rest of the Telltale catalog. As a result, we had a lot of conversations about the art of narrative design and her desire to be game developer when she grows up.
01:20:37:00 - 01:20:41:21
Lauren
I was very happy to be part of creating that game and to see my daughter play it and discuss it with her."
01:20:42:08 - 01:21:04:19
Gabe
I remember when that came out, my baby sister was like, Gabe Gabe, can I buy this on your steam. Please, I'll pay you back. I'll do whatever I'll get the money. I don't care. Please. She played through both! There's two my - there's two I believe we just played through all of it. I love that. Mm hmm.
01:21:04:19 - 01:21:40:07
Lauren
She does - after story mode. Then she in 2016, she was director of production for The Walking Dead: Michonne? Dunno. And also Batman The Telltale series. And then she was Project Lead for the 2016 BioShock Remastered. She was the creative director for the 2016 The Walking Dead, A New Frontier. And then she moved to a producer role at ILM Lab, where she was producer for the 2019 VR game Vader Immortal Episodes two and three.
01:21:40:12 - 01:22:10:21
Lauren
She was on the team for episode one. She was producer for Vader Immortal. She was then producer for 2020 Star Wars Tales from the Galaxy's Edge and is that where I ended this? Yes. So I'm sure she's doing more things but she - In 2008, Variety was talking to her about BioShock where she is talking about how her team was "striving to make games more cinematic in scope."
01:22:10:21 - 01:22:18:22
Lauren
And I think you really see that from the rest of everything else she worked with. Yeah, everything was very cinematic. It was a movie.
01:22:19:26 - 01:22:22:14
Gabe
Have you played BioShock? I don't remember.
01:22:22:14 - 01:22:22:19
Lauren
No
01:22:22:19 - 01:22:27:18
Gabe
Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You explain it. As someone who's never played it, I love this. Yes.
01:22:29:10 - 01:22:58:16
Lauren
So this is developed from quotes that I was reading. But BioShock places the player in the role of a plane crash victim who must ward off attacks by mutants and drones in the underwater city of Rapture. "If all this sounds like the kind of survivalist dystopia normally visited by adolescent boys targeted by the male dominated gaming industry not to mention Hollywood, the philosophical and moral dimensions of BioShock raised the enterprise to a whole other level."
01:23:00:11 - 01:23:11:17
Gabe
To the okay. Yeah, I don't remember it being a plane crash, but I suppose that's true. I love "by mutants and drones". but yes androids
01:23:11:17 - 01:23:37:20
Lauren
We mentioned Ayn Rand earlier. Yes, have I kept that in our little brains. So there is - in this Variety interview in 2008, they asked her like a couple little questions, you know, little fluffier questions of like, you know, what what are you reading now? So she was reading a book called Sewer, Gas and Electric, the Public Works trilogy by Matt Ruff.
01:23:38:27 - 01:24:12:10
Lauren
Now, Matt, who also wrote Lovecraft County, the new HBO series...new? Newish? Anyway recent HBO series. But this book, The Sewer, Gas and Electric, the Public Works trilogy, was published in 1997. I want to read you the summary for this book. "High Above Manhattan, Android and Human Steel workers are constructing a new Tower of Babel for billionaire Harry Grant as a monument to humanity's power to dream in the festering sewers below.
01:24:12:10 - 01:24:39:24
Lauren
A darker game is afoot. A Wall Street takeover artist has been murdered and Gant's crusading ex-wife, Joan Fine, has been hired to find out why. The year is 2023, and Ayn Rand has been resurrected and bottled in a lamp to serve as Joan's assistant, an eco terrorist named Philo Dufrense travels in a pink and green submarine designed by Howard Hughes.
01:24:40:05 - 01:25:03:25
Lauren
A Volkswagen Beetle is possessed by the spirit of Abbey Hoffman. Meisterbrau, a mutant great white shark is running loose in the sewers below times square and a one armed 181 year old Civil War veteran joins Joan and Ayn in their quest for the truth. All of whom, and many more besides are caught up in a vast conspiracy involving Walt Disney, J.
01:25:03:26 - 01:25:13:19
Lauren
Edgar Hoover and a mob of homicidal robots." So that is the book that she has been reading while working on BioShock.
01:25:14:11 - 01:25:46:07
Gabe
Okay. Well, so it's been rusty since I've been looking at BioShock stuff, but typing the rapture into Google again and pulling up the frickin fan wiki because, you brought up Ayn Rand like you're saying, right? So Rapture the city itself in terms of actual philosophical underpinnings. Rapture can best be described as a gulch, which is a term derived from Ghost Gulch in the Ayn Rand novel.
01:25:46:07 - 01:26:24:20
Gabe
Atlas Shrugged which is a localized, underground, economic and social community of free minded individuals, and how it differs from a commune and that is uniquely freedom focused and so upholds individual and property rights, but does not operate by the rules of a collective community. So the whole point of rapture was it to be... I'll keep going. The original goal of Rapture was to create a laissez faire society free of religious and government interference as of any kind where any citizen could prosper for their own gain without being hindered by the needs of others, the world's best and brightest would be granted freedom of choice and Rapture,
01:26:24:29 - 01:26:50:21
Gabe
Unrestrained by government, religion and other such established institutions, instead of abiding by traditions and moral systems imposed by the situate institutions such as ambition scientific reason and free thought were to guide the inhabitants in their pursuit of achievement. Right. So it was going to be a utopia was what Rapture was supposed to be. But as you play through the game, you're like, Hmm, about that.
01:26:52:08 - 01:27:01:11
Gabe
But also like what you're talking about, about what her having been reading while playing this game. Like I, I see that. I see all of that. Yeah. Mm hmm. Mm.
01:27:02:10 - 01:27:28:09
Lauren
I know because she, she just mentioned the title in the interview and I was like, okay, well, I'm going to go and poke into that. And then I just found the entire thing and I was like, Oh, Lord, okay, got it. Very good. Excellent. So, I mean, some idea of where her brain was at. And I had one last quote from her that her career mantra was, "Love the bomb.
01:27:28:24 - 01:27:39:02
Lauren
You can't make something great by being safe all the time. Sometimes you just have to throw that risk adverse mentality out, the window, stop worrying and just go for it."
01:27:40:00 - 01:27:46:23
Gabe
I don't get "love the bomb" in relation to that, but I'm also really sick right now and I'm a little drug addled.
01:27:46:23 - 01:28:09:28
Lauren
I think it's. Like, don't be afraid of like the fallout, love the just like lobbing something in. Like, don't be worried about, like, you know, being safe or like, don't be worried if everything explodes. Like, sometimes you just have to let it happen and then just see what you find.
01:28:10:12 - 01:28:10:22
Gabe
Right?
01:28:11:12 - 01:28:12:07
Lauren
That's how I read it.
01:28:13:12 - 01:28:36:18
Gabe
Well, the stuff after that makes sense to me. It was more the phrasing "Love The Bomb", where I was like, I'm not following. But yeah, the way you say that, that makes sense. I mean, you definitely say, yeah, because I mean, she she was an entrepreneur, right? Because you're just you're saying she made the she made a company of her own.
01:28:36:18 - 01:28:38:17
Gabe
Right? didn't you said or am I crazy.
01:28:38:17 - 01:28:47:26
Lauren
Yeah. That she had her own company for a few years before joining back in with some other companies that were established.
01:28:48:12 - 01:28:48:24
Gabe
Mm hmm.
01:28:49:14 - 01:28:51:22
Lauren
Yeah. So that is Alyssa Finley.
01:28:52:15 - 01:29:01:17
Gabe
That's. I love that. I that we're doing this and covering these. It's always very interesting and it's very it's empowering. You know, it's it's.
01:29:04:08 - 01:29:06:00
Lauren
All of their stories are so different.
01:29:07:00 - 01:29:30:29
Gabe
Mm We'll talk about this more in the next episode. We're talking about the e-sports, but I had been thinking about this too when we were looking at that is like when you don't see people doing these things right, like people that you see yourself and you can think to yourself, then why should I do it? You know, like, how am I going to make it if there's nobody like me doing it?
01:29:30:29 - 01:29:57:28
Gabe
And so I feel like I was doing this and showing that and like reading about and seeing and it's like, Oh yeah, there are these awesome, strong and powerful. And like, I knew there were I'm not a dumb, dumb, like I knew there were, but like having tangible evidence of it and seen it and feeling it and living it, I'm like, Oh yeah, I'm going to no, I'm not going to go do it.
01:29:57:28 - 01:30:25:00
Gabe
But I hope it's inspiring people to think this could be a career for me or like you. You can go do this if you want this. If you like this, if you feel inspired, go do it like she said, don't throw yourself at it and you really have to like you just it's okay to assess the risks, but sometimes you got to be like the reward though if you do, it is greater than the risks.
01:30:25:00 - 01:31:02:02
Gabe
Okay. And just go. Just go. Yeah. So that was great. It was really great. I think all of that was really great. Hot topics. Not hot topics. It was a good episode I'll enjoy about all hot topics. Well, yeah, for better or for worse. All hot topics. But that's okay. Yeah, that's okay. And thank you so much to all of you guys for listening and showing up to all of our podcasts and tuning in.
01:31:02:04 - 01:31:16:13
Gabe
It's greatly appreciated. Again, when you hear this episode, it'll be past. So if you celebrate it, I hope you had a great Easter. I think Lauren hopes you had a great Easter, can't speak for you.
01:31:17:12 - 01:31:19:01
Lauren
Sure do! Me and my carrots.
01:31:19:01 - 01:31:43:23
Gabe
You and your carrots and your carrots. I love that. And a reminder, if you have a developer, game, or sidequest you want us to talk about or any local anonomized gossip, if you simply must tell someone, let us know on our Twitter at @ nosidequests or you can email us at nosidequests @ gmail. com.
01:31:44:15 - 01:32:11:01
Gabe
And if you'd like to see our lovely faces during the podcast, we post each episode with a video to our I Don't Believe in Side Quests YouTube channel and as always you can find me, Gabe, at Nenyaadamas on Twitter, Twitch, YouTube and Instagram and you can find my lovely and beautiful co-host, Lauren at Sweetie_potat on Twitter, Twitch and YouTube, thank you again so much for tuning in and we will see you guys soon.
01:32:11:01 - 01:32:16:19
Gabe
In the next, the next episode. Bye!