Episode 17: Spooky Sc(ai)ry

We chat Her Interactive (per usual) and the future of AI in gaming.

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sweetie_potat
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YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@nenyaadamas

Transcript

00:00:10:27 - 00:00:19:17
Gabe
What's up, fellow Questers? Welcome back to another episode of I Don't Believe in Sequester, where we love to remind you that every side quest is somebody else's main quest. I'm Gabe.

00:00:20:00 - 00:00:20:19
Lauren
I'm Lauren.

00:00:21:18 - 00:00:45:27
Gabe
Let's do some catch up. what was happening this week for us. Mother's Day was good. Happy Mother's Day. Belated Mother's Day to everyone. All the moms out there. We we ate out on our deck. We have a table that has a fire in the middle with the rocks. I think that was like the first time we had all sat around it as a family with the fire going.

00:00:46:22 - 00:00:48:05
Gabe
So that was that was nice.

00:00:48:27 - 00:00:49:16
Lauren
Yeah. I mean.

00:00:49:16 - 00:01:01:06
Gabe
The first few hours talking, what did you do? Wait, I know what you did. No, I don't. No, I do. You told me. Kind of.

00:01:02:07 - 00:01:33:27
Lauren
Yeah. So sorry. My husband left early Saturday morning to drive down to go see his mom. And then he was watching the Fast and Furious movie Marathon Sunday and then Monday. So he just got back this morning. So my parents came down to get me so we could go down to my sister's. So we did Mother's Day down at my sister and her husband and their dogs.

00:01:34:08 - 00:02:01:21
Lauren
We also sat outside and it was really hot this weekend in Seattle area and we took a long walk and half of it was shaded and really nice and the other half was in the sun going uphill. So we were all just exhausted. By the end of that. And then on Sunday, my parents and I went and did Mother's Day lunch and spent time with my grandma.

00:02:02:16 - 00:02:32:14
Lauren
So we got some additional Mother's Day time over there with a different generation. Yeah. And then I came home and just was kind of in gremlin mode because my husband was gone, and I was just alone in the house and it was really hot. So I was like having windows either all closed or all open, depending on the vibe and yeah, just not interacting with anyone.

00:02:32:23 - 00:02:36:22
Gabe
And I don't have to try.

00:02:37:16 - 00:02:57:17
Lauren
Yeah, I think I had one call yesterday, but other than that, didn't talk to anyone. And one of my friends like, hey, are you streaming tonight? And I was like, absolutely not. No, no, no, no, no. I have not had any social interaction today, and we're just going to keep those good vibes going.

00:02:58:17 - 00:03:02:16
Gabe
It's bad vibes to interact.

00:03:03:04 - 00:03:40:06
Lauren
I don't know. I'm I'm very much an introvert. And so when I have alone time, it's just very exciting because I don't have a lot of it. And so it's like it's very stressful saying good bye. But then once I am alone, I was just thinking about all the things I could do in the house. Like the few hours between my husband leaving on Saturday and my parents coming to pick me up, I was just like, Great, I'm going to do all these dishes and I'm going to get the house all ready to be closed up for two days in the heat.

00:03:40:06 - 00:04:03:14
Lauren
And I was just like, Oh my gosh, I really have to get my space drawers all figured out. So then I was just like doing my space things and I was like, okay, I have 30 minutes. Do I have time to like make cookies or something for Mother's Day? And I was like, No, that's crazy. But I just had all of a sudden, just like, boom, I'm going to go do this and then I'm going to do this and then I'm going to do this.

00:04:04:02 - 00:04:11:23
Gabe
No, I like you're like it's my spice drawer. Is he not allowed to, like, touch your spices?

00:04:12:02 - 00:04:24:28
Lauren
No, it's we. It's our space store. But, yeah, we just have a lot a lot of spices and we have duplicates of things, and it's been making me crazy.

00:04:25:08 - 00:04:41:16
Gabe
So I feel that we have a whole cupboard dedicated to spices and then a separate cover dedicated to stuff that's more baking. Yeah. So my cupboard, it's like three shelves.

00:04:41:26 - 00:05:20:00
Lauren
Our kitchen only has two drawers. What? It has, like, weird shelves. Like, the upper shelves are great. We've got good situation up there. We have two little drawers. So one of them is obviously cutlery and the other one is like linens, I guess. And then we have these two big corner alcoves which don't have shelves in them. So they're just big pits and we just kind of have stuff in there because we're trying to figure out, do we just go in because we're renting the place?

00:05:20:00 - 00:05:20:19
Lauren
So we're like, do.

00:05:20:19 - 00:05:20:28
Gabe
We.

00:05:21:09 - 00:05:37:00
Lauren
Makeshift? Like, how do we want to do this? And we've been in our place for nine months now and have not touched it. So I'm pretty sure we're just going to be renewing anyway some if we're going to be staying another full year, then it's like, all right, fine, we'll actually do something about this.

00:05:37:19 - 00:05:38:00
Gabe
Right?

00:05:38:18 - 00:05:53:17
Lauren
I feel like that's just like how it goes the first year. You're like a if we're only here a year and then as soon as we start the second year and you know, you don't have to move, you don't have to like shuffle things around, you're like, okay, now we can start again this just a little bit nicer.

00:05:54:12 - 00:06:04:27
Gabe
Mm Yeah. Do you guys want to move soon or are you like, do you think you'll be here for a few years?

00:06:08:01 - 00:06:09:21
Gabe
Since my sister too personal.

00:06:10:09 - 00:06:17:13
Lauren
Since my sister just bought a house, she and her husband just bought a house. So now everyone's just like, Hello, when are you guys going to buy a house?

00:06:17:27 - 00:06:19:15
Gabe
We're like, Okay.

00:06:19:27 - 00:06:50:17
Lauren
I don't know when the price is going to go down, you know? So I it's at the back of our well, not the back of our minds. It's getting nearer to the front of our minds of are we going to seriously start looking for a more permanent residence? I know we're happy with where we are given our current circumstances, income, all of that.

00:06:51:17 - 00:07:01:02
Lauren
So and we'd be moving away from the squash courts in the squash community that my husband is really into. So he's a little resistant to that.

00:07:01:02 - 00:07:02:29
Gabe
But that's.

00:07:04:12 - 00:07:10:00
Lauren
Squash. It's like it's like indoor tennis. Yeah.

00:07:10:19 - 00:07:14:11
Gabe
It's so yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I shy about it. Yeah. Okay.

00:07:14:20 - 00:07:35:19
Lauren
Yeah. Our gym has a squash court and at least down by my sister. And if we're moving, I'd want to be close to her, at least down where she's living. There's like a distinct lack of squash courts nearby. So Mike is like, Hmm, I don't know if I want to live like that, but they also live really close to a golf course.

00:07:35:19 - 00:07:38:18
Lauren
So I'm like, You love golf, go play golf.

00:07:39:17 - 00:08:01:00
Gabe
Everyone can't have everything. And sometimes why is everyone asking you if you're going to get a house? Just because, like I know you said your sister bought one, but like just because she bought one, why are they all? I only ask because I felt like we were having that kind of conversation.

00:08:01:09 - 00:08:01:15
Lauren
Mm.

00:08:01:29 - 00:08:08:24
Gabe
But otherwise I wouldn't just be like, so when are you getting a house? Like, you guys just got married and stuff? So, like, when are you getting a house?

00:08:09:28 - 00:08:37:19
Lauren
Well, I think that's the thing. Like, you can just got married. When are you going to get a house and a house? When are you going to have babies? You know, you know, I'm 30, so, you know, my clock is just for those who cannot see my face. That was sarcasm. But yeah. So I think it's just a lot of oh, okay, so great.

00:08:37:19 - 00:08:41:05
Lauren
What are your next steps? Let's start getting that moving.

00:08:42:24 - 00:08:44:02
Gabe
What's so strange to me.

00:08:44:23 - 00:08:48:19
Lauren
Do not have to be making this decision yet. So you.

00:08:48:25 - 00:09:11:21
Gabe
Do. You don't. And I don't feel like this is probably just a personal thing. It's just probably me. But I feel like if people ask this question, just like they feel so entitled to have that knowledge, like it's not your business. Like, why are you asking? It's one thing if like we're having that kind of conversation, right? That's one thing.

00:09:11:21 - 00:09:14:08
Lauren
But just I don't get it.

00:09:15:06 - 00:09:20:09
Gabe
That's something that annoys me about social interactions.

00:09:20:26 - 00:09:23:11
Lauren
Mm hmm.

00:09:23:11 - 00:09:33:27
Gabe
It's something that's annoy me my whole life, and they're like, So what are you going to do? Or like when you start to get into, like, the job age. So you're going to get a job and you're like.

00:09:34:08 - 00:09:34:20
Lauren
Yeah.

00:09:35:08 - 00:09:38:25
Gabe
How would I just tell you when I've done what I've done? How would that.

00:09:39:19 - 00:10:07:21
Lauren
That's a thing because it's natural carry City, it's like, Oh, okay, so you finished a chapter or whatever. So tell me all about the next one. But yeah, no, I think those kind of major life, I don't know, it's hard depending on who it is. Yeah. I think when it's coming from your family, then they're just really interested in what you're up to.

00:10:07:21 - 00:10:30:22
Lauren
And if you've already made a decision on it, well, then they want to know. But I think there needs to be a lot more, I guess acceptance of responses that fall along the lines of, Oh, we aren't sure yet. Like, I think you ask something and somebody says, Oh, I actually don't want to have this conversation right back off.

00:10:31:11 - 00:10:44:29
Lauren
None of your business. I don't think it's a problem to ask, but I think you have to be really emotionally prepared to not get an answer that you're looking for.

00:10:44:29 - 00:10:50:28
Gabe
I feel like because I live in Minnesota and when they ask those kinds of questions, as with the passive aggressive.

00:10:51:18 - 00:10:52:22
Lauren
Judgment.

00:10:53:06 - 00:11:13:29
Gabe
Underwear, and you're like, Where are you about yourself, Nancy? Like, just go, okay. I was thinking that because of Nancy Drew, I was just thinking of like a typical small town name. It's kind of awkward, right? Deborah, go think. Don't worry about yourself.

00:11:13:29 - 00:11:41:02
Lauren
But I think that's the that's the problem. That's the intent of like, are you asking because you're genuinely like, oh, have you already made a decision on this or are you still thinking about it? And is there any way I can assist you or provide guidance depending on what you're looking at, versus why don't you tell me so that I can judge whatever answer you give me?

00:11:41:02 - 00:12:16:17
Gabe
You know why I hate and I don't use hate often, but I feel like I think I truly feel that strongly about this so much as every day when I go into work, I have three or four people. Immediately, as I walk in say, How are you? And I hate it. I hate that question. So much and I hate that I get asked four times in the span of 10 minutes like I just got here.

00:12:16:17 - 00:12:35:24
Gabe
Can you just like, let me. I don't know. I wanna talk about it. Like, how am I supposed to answer? Do you want me to be honest with you? Do you want me to not be honest with you? Like, why can't we just like or at work just get into it? And then because they ask you, then you have to ask.

00:12:35:24 - 00:12:40:21
Gabe
And I'm like, It's not that I don't care. It's just it's so.

00:12:41:18 - 00:12:58:16
Lauren
Just say redundant and walk off every single day if you give them the same answer. It's just like when celebrities wear the same clothing. So paparazzi stops asking or stops trying to take pictures, just giving the same answer every day. And at some point, they're.

00:12:58:16 - 00:13:05:19
Gabe
Too they're actually too nice of people's like, I can't I can't do it. I can't bring myself to do anything, like out.

00:13:05:19 - 00:13:22:11
Lauren
Of dreams nights, especially the one about saying, I know, but it's how you do it. They live in the dream if no, because they're asking the same thing every day. They're saying the same thing every day. You can say the same thing every day.

00:13:23:10 - 00:13:44:29
Gabe
Okay. Well, one of them I have to remember not to say name, so one of them I've known most of my life. She's been there since I was in kindergarten. And like, she's actually like such a sweet, nice person. And I know when she asks me, she genuinely means it. She's not doing Minnesotan small talk like she asked me because she cares.

00:13:44:29 - 00:14:22:25
Gabe
Because she cares about me. And so for her I'm like, okay, I have to. I can't be mean. I just have to say what I got to say. Sometimes I'm honest, sometimes I'm not honest. Sometimes I give evasive answers, but I make sure I answer and that I genuinely stop and ask how she's doing. But the other two, I'm just like, I feel like we're just doing this for formalities sake and not like we all will say something if there's some gossip or drama or household stuff we want to talk about, you know what I mean?

00:14:22:25 - 00:14:30:13
Gabe
Like there doesn't need to be a how are you doing?

00:14:30:13 - 00:14:44:21
Lauren
Sorry, are they actually looking for an answer on how you're doing the other two, or are they is it just an elongated hello.

00:14:44:21 - 00:15:12:11
Gabe
Yes. Like when they ask, you know, they're not being disingenuous. Like they you know, they do mean it, but it's also just like try to explain it. It doesn't have to be done. It's not something we need to do or have to do. And it's kind of just it's kind of in a long dated hello but they do they do mean it.

00:15:12:11 - 00:15:49:13
Gabe
I just it's such a nuisance, it's so obnoxious. It's so not necessary because because I come in. So I come in partially through the day. Right. And then I stay later and the, the other assistant comes in through the morning and then stays still. 115 because we need three people for the lunch and nap time and we have our 45 minute overlap where there's three of us there, which is good because we can get a lot of stuff done.

00:15:50:25 - 00:16:13:17
Gabe
So I usually come in in the days, you know, usually I come in and the day's already partially happened. So usually what we're supposed to, you know, kind of the big thing we should do is they tell me what's been going on. You know, has certain kids been having a not so great day? Is someone maybe sick and not feeling great?

00:16:13:17 - 00:16:34:06
Gabe
Is someone just having a really emotional day? They're just feeling their emotions way stronger than usual and don't know what to do with that. Did an accident happen? How's the day going? Have we had to change plans? The things that happen that were supposed to happen or are like our our teacher? Oh, my gosh, don't get me started on it.

00:16:34:22 - 00:17:04:21
Gabe
There's times where so everything kind of gets like a half hour slot because that's the longest you can hold a four year old's attention. After that, they're just it's just not practical. So everything has a half hour slot and that's how we change everything up. Art sometimes goes she just goes way past some. Okay. So there's been a few times recently where she just doesn't even come up with a project and last minute she's like, Yeah, I'm not coming for art.

00:17:04:25 - 00:17:31:14
Gabe
All right. Okay. Wish we could just decide not to do our job. And then there's other times where she comes and she brings way too complicated projects. The one they did last week, this one girl was like I. She started crying because it was really complicated what she was having them do and just, like, ridiculous. Like, I don't understand.

00:17:31:14 - 00:17:34:03
Gabe
I just don't understand. It's use cry.

00:17:34:10 - 00:17:35:27
Lauren
It's like, oh, no.

00:17:36:19 - 00:18:02:05
Gabe
It's okay. We don't understand. They're making pandas. And so instead of having everything trace, which is what we usually do, we have to do a lot of prep. She has she gave them white paper. They had a draw on the white paper or they had to cut the white paper like make the shape. And then they had to use those as tracers on black paper and do it.

00:18:02:05 - 00:18:23:15
Gabe
And it was like a it was just ridiculous. So ridiculous. So that I don't know, I feel like that's what is important when we come in and that's where we get into it. Because usually throughout the day we talk and talk about that stuff anyway. So we'll get to the how are you doing or what's going on or what's been up, you know what I mean?

00:18:23:15 - 00:18:57:23
Gabe
We don't have to do it right away. I feel like part of it's too is a not that I'm not a morning person, but I feel like for most of my life I need I need like an hour to just kind of go through the motions and like, don't talk to me, don't interact with me. My dad makes fun of me sometimes at the cabin when I come down and I just don't I just sit and I don't want to be I don't want to be talked to for an hour.

00:18:58:17 - 00:19:27:11
Gabe
And then I get ready and the very short amount of time. So I, I'm usually still in that hour period when I get to work and they're asking me how I'm doing. I feel like this is still my hour. Don't talk to me. Don't look at me, don't think about me. Don't acknowledge me. Yeah, that was written. I probably didn't need to go into that much detail.

00:19:27:11 - 00:19:39:26
Gabe
I just feel like every episode I expose myself more and more and it's just like every episode you could give me a different name based off of what I expose.

00:19:40:06 - 00:19:44:16
Lauren
Oh, well. Oh, wow.

00:19:44:16 - 00:19:56:01
Gabe
So some of you always say salary anyways. You talk about their interactive update next.

00:19:56:21 - 00:20:19:04
Lauren
Yeah. So her interactive has definitely been more active. Heard her active has now introduced two new characters for the Nancy Drew game. We recently met Elka L.K., who works at what looks like to be like an Apple store.

00:20:20:01 - 00:20:23:04
Gabe
Yeah, so say we had an electronic store.

00:20:23:16 - 00:20:53:17
Lauren
Mm hmm. So she kind of, like, looks a little, like, cool hipster. She's wearing, like, paper bag pants and, like, a sun on her shirt. But, yeah, technology. So, again, we're working with technology. So we have our coffee shop area, we have our little technology store and two new characters going. So it's they've got multiple.

00:20:53:18 - 00:20:54:16
Gabe
Characters name.

00:20:56:20 - 00:21:02:08
Lauren
Uh radic already K.

00:21:03:17 - 00:21:05:16
Gabe
Our right. So when we're done.

00:21:05:23 - 00:21:20:05
Lauren
R a d e k so what I'm now looking at where these names.

00:21:20:05 - 00:21:25:13
Gabe
Yeah, the first one is German or Hebrew and this one's Polish. So that doesn't really.

00:21:25:24 - 00:21:27:26
Lauren
Well Polish and German.

00:21:29:12 - 00:21:30:03
Gabe
That's true.

00:21:30:20 - 00:21:32:19
Lauren
So German, Incitec.

00:21:33:27 - 00:21:50:12
Gabe
Pivot to Germany. Well I speak but we haven't done Poland, right? I don't think we've done Poland. So Poland would be interesting.

00:21:52:07 - 00:22:14:12
Lauren
Yeah, Poland would be interesting. But just because most of the other Nancy games are at least somewhat based on some of the original books, or maybe not some maybe not the original books as much as kind of the paperback Pulp Fiction ones. So I'm.

00:22:14:19 - 00:22:21:13
Gabe
Worried. I mean, they mean the original versus Pulp.

00:22:21:16 - 00:22:24:03
Lauren
Fiction for the main 56.

00:22:25:00 - 00:22:25:19
Gabe
Rye.

00:22:26:08 - 00:22:26:23
Lauren
Versus.

00:22:26:23 - 00:22:39:22
Gabe
The Chateau Ranches in that southern staircase clock tower. I guess you don't really do hidden staircase, but the clock tower is black licorice.

00:22:39:25 - 00:22:52:11
Lauren
And Grandma, all I know is based off of a one of the pulp popular paperbacks about blue be heard.

00:22:53:13 - 00:22:56:04
Gabe
Which is a new dungeon. When you say pulp, you're.

00:22:58:13 - 00:23:38:03
Lauren
So the Nancy Drew series that was written in like a maze that were kind of the. Yeah yeah that were written in the eighties because 1979 is when the 56th book of the original kind of like the yellow hardback books that many of us think of as kind of the classic Nancy Drew. So that came out in 79, right?

00:23:38:03 - 00:24:05:02
Lauren
And then from then on out, then they had like the Phantom of that. So the Bluebeard room is the one I'm thinking of or the Blackmore Manor. There is one of the Nancy Drew books, but it's it's just more of a paperback and series. Sorry. Got it.

00:24:05:02 - 00:24:12:08
Gabe
That were Message in the Hollow Oak. I liked.

00:24:12:08 - 00:24:37:05
Lauren
That book. I know that my parents this weekend and I was looking at all my Nancy Drew books and I was just like, since I get into a bigger place, mom, I'll take all of these out of the room. I'll take them all with me. I really liked the password of Larkspur Lane. Yeah, that was a really interesting one.

00:24:38:12 - 00:24:51:06
Gabe
Secret in the old attic. Oh, boy. What's the one where she gets trapped with a spider? That if the spider bites her, she going die? Do you remember where it's from? That's from very vague.

00:24:51:11 - 00:24:54:25
Lauren
Because we had this conversation.

00:24:54:25 - 00:25:03:02
Gabe
Yeah, because that's that's still dentistry still traumatizes me.

00:25:03:02 - 00:25:09:05
Lauren
I'm pretty sure it's a spider. Spider mystery. Spider on the cover, they go to Africa.

00:25:10:01 - 00:25:12:04
Gabe
Maybe I'm gonna go to architecture.

00:25:12:26 - 00:25:29:28
Lauren
I got she went to at least the Wikipedia does not specify other than they go to Africa. So I have no idea which country slash countries they wander off to which.

00:25:29:28 - 00:25:45:01
Gabe
Tree symbol I was like through and I if there's I thought I don't know I thought more were from this.

00:25:45:01 - 00:26:08:17
Lauren
That's what I'm saying. I mean there were just so 56 was the original up until 2003, they were publishing more books as kind of a continuation series. So it got up to 175. So there were 100 and like 20 books that were written after that main 56. So mystery in the tornado.

00:26:08:17 - 00:26:09:13
Gabe
Those by.

00:26:09:17 - 00:26:19:26
Lauren
And I think it's still written I think it's still the pseudonym Carolyn Keene. I think they all.

00:26:20:00 - 00:26:20:12
Gabe
Write.

00:26:22:10 - 00:26:24:16
Lauren
Ghostwriters.

00:26:24:16 - 00:26:29:20
Gabe
Right. Well, that's why it wasn't the original 56 is by the the same person.

00:26:30:19 - 00:27:00:15
Lauren
Am oh no like that and I think the fact that kind of I think there were kind of groups where somebody would write like two or three in a row, but because it has so many different authors, that's why all of the character descriptions of Nancy, while similar, are all a little different, which I think is really, really funny.

00:27:00:15 - 00:27:39:11
Lauren
She's almost always described in like slightly different manner because everyone has the bones, but anyway, oh, the mystery of the ski jump I really, really enjoyed because they are trying to catch a jewel thief named Mitzi Channing, which I just think is such a really good name. Mitzi Channing steals Nancy's identity. It's just so much fun.

00:27:41:06 - 00:28:17:14
Gabe
There are eight ghostwriters for the original 56, so the first ever who wrote? Nancy Drew wrote the first seven, and then she also wrote 11 through 25 and 30. So she I mean, she wrote like half. Yeah, a lot. She wrote a lot of them. And then also it was a girl originally a through ten looks like it was by a guy.

00:28:17:14 - 00:28:30:00
Gabe
And then another guy did 26 and then it's a girl who did 27. Well, I mean, it looks like you is half, half written by girls and half written by guys.

00:28:31:00 - 00:28:31:23
Lauren
Interesting.

00:28:32:28 - 00:28:39:27
Gabe
Oh, sheesh. Harriet Straight. Maya Adams wrote 33 through 56.

00:28:40:26 - 00:28:41:13
Lauren
Okay.

00:28:42:13 - 00:28:50:15
Gabe
That's crazy. And then the 57 375 spinoffs are written by numerous ghostwriters, many who haven't been revealed.

00:28:50:29 - 00:29:21:00
Lauren
Mm hmm. So, yeah, so Eastern Europe is where we are thinking. What's interesting is. Oh, so ever in a thought like mystery of the seven keys, if that is going to be the title of this game, which they still have not announced the title of the game, which I think is really interesting, is still call it Nancy Drew or N.D. 334 as the hashtag.

00:29:21:00 - 00:29:40:00
Lauren
They still haven't announced the title, but everyone was thinking the seven keys. We were all thinking piano keys. But from all of the discussion pieces going on and all of the clues, it's more likely that it's seven computer keys.

00:29:41:03 - 00:29:46:27
Gabe
Oh, didn't we originally think keyboard though, because of the hacking? If it's a piano.

00:29:47:11 - 00:29:48:15
Lauren
But no original.

00:29:48:15 - 00:30:03:00
Gabe
Are you saying we originally thought piano? Okay. And now we're switching to not piano? That makes sense. Because you because there's like. Yeah, okay. Sorry. Continue.

00:30:03:00 - 00:30:51:05
Lauren
Yeah. When everyone saw the first word, when everyone saw the title first being copyright, then everyone was thinking, oh, Vienna, oh, piano keys, music related. But yeah, I mean, it doesn't surprise me that they're doing hacking because again, coding and teaching the young ladies how to do coding work and computer things is a passion project of the her interactive CEO.

00:30:52:03 - 00:31:01:06
Lauren
So I'm not surprised that's the direction we're going with this. MM True.

00:31:01:06 - 00:31:04:18
Gabe
I feel like their marketing team's been doing a pretty good job building hype.

00:31:05:11 - 00:31:05:25
Lauren
Mm hmm.

00:31:05:28 - 00:31:07:00
Gabe
Bringing people in.

00:31:07:15 - 00:31:40:10
Lauren
Yeah. I mean, they really stepped up their puzzle game because I previously they had been doing some kind of half hearted kind of word puzzles. And now now they really understand how rabbit and the fan base is. And however, it is going to figure stuff out really fast. So they've been making things a lot harder, making them very trivia based.

00:31:40:10 - 00:32:23:01
Lauren
For example, the post they have today where they had a variety of different texts, quote unquote, from different characters saying, oh, well, what are the of like, oh, I can't help you solve this puzzle, by the way, did you happen to see the year that this thing happened? So you can go to the different games and look and see two numbers from each of the games that are referenced in the texts based on like, oh, there are two numbers here.

00:32:23:01 - 00:32:53:25
Lauren
There are two numbers here. Some are from data, some are from puzzles, some are from just trivia or pieces of information that you learn about. And apparently that's going to sell something or spell something out. But yeah, so they've definitely been dropping hints so that people can go and solve them and then talk about solving them and talk about what it all means, which is really bringing the community together and making everyone really, really excited.

00:32:53:25 - 00:33:30:20
Lauren
So far I've seen a lot of really positive feedback from how everything is working and everyone is. Yeah, so far feeling really good about it, feeling really positive. I've definitely seen people saying, Hey, everyone like let's chill out. Let's not, you know, similar to what we were saying either last episode or before that. And people getting really, really excited and overhyping the game and then not living up to expectations which are just impossible.

00:33:30:20 - 00:33:39:15
Lauren
So people have definitely been saying, hey, we need to manage our expectations like we can hope that we enjoy the game.

00:33:40:15 - 00:33:54:26
Gabe
Right? They also have to walk that fine line too, though of not not necessarily promising more than they can give, but just misleading what it's actually going to be like and how, you know what I mean?

00:33:54:26 - 00:33:56:07
Lauren
Misrepresenting it. Yeah.

00:33:56:16 - 00:33:58:11
Gabe
Misrepresent. Thank you. Yeah.

00:33:59:08 - 00:34:27:24
Lauren
We shall see what continues to happen because they've given us two locations and two characters and again, keep dropping hints about clues. They keep dropping hints and clues. And I'm just yeah, I'm very curious about when they are going to start actually announcing things.

00:34:29:02 - 00:34:35:06
Gabe
Yeah. Because I because we don't have any kind of timeframe do we. I don't think so.

00:34:35:14 - 00:35:04:07
Lauren
Have any timeframe. This started a month and a half ago. Mm. So it's been you know 45 days where we just been saying great, okay you're showing off things again. They have not announced the name of the game. We do not have any general idea of when it's going to be coming out. We don't have a lot of tangibles, but they keep giving us hints and things to solve.

00:35:04:12 - 00:35:24:00
Lauren
And again, I, I don't want things to necessarily be spoiled. Like, if I knew when the game was going to be coming out, I'd be like, okay, amazing. I'll buy it. I don't need to be involved in the process.

00:35:24:00 - 00:35:46:01
Gabe
It does feel strange that they haven't even released the name after 45 days of yeah, everything I. At this point in development, I feel they should have some kind of name figured out so.

00:35:46:11 - 00:36:04:15
Lauren
Right. I don't I guess. Yeah. I'm interested by their strategy. Yeah. Because I, I truly don't know why they would hold out on the name.

00:36:06:00 - 00:36:06:10
Gabe
Right.

00:36:06:18 - 00:36:15:06
Lauren
And I just, it doesn't, it doesn't make feel like. Mm.

00:36:17:12 - 00:36:20:28
Gabe
So it is our guess that it's going to be in Poland.

00:36:22:19 - 00:36:33:11
Lauren
And Eastern Europe is as close or as specific as I'm going to get on that.

00:36:34:09 - 00:36:37:16
Gabe
Right. So you're not showing brave.

00:36:38:04 - 00:36:53:17
Lauren
I also have questions because at least from the looks of this, I don't think this is a tropical place where she and Ned have gone, which is what they were talking about doing at the end of Salem.

00:36:54:00 - 00:36:56:24
Gabe
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

00:36:57:02 - 00:36:57:21
Lauren
Right.

00:36:59:05 - 00:37:05:28
Gabe
So I blocked a lot of that out when they tried to ruin Nancy.

00:37:05:28 - 00:37:10:15
Lauren
And that's that was a big conversation.

00:37:10:15 - 00:37:26:13
Gabe
I know, but I just you can't even come at me because for a long time you blocked so much of Salem out to I don't even. Yeah, all right. I'm putting my bet on Poland.

00:37:26:29 - 00:37:27:29
Lauren
The clue the Black.

00:37:28:03 - 00:37:28:29
Gabe
Keys.

00:37:28:29 - 00:37:49:17
Lauren
Is the. That's why I kept thinking the seven keys. Save the seven keys. It's because the clue the black keys, Nancy, and the squad go to Florida and they go to key. The Keys and Florida.

00:37:49:20 - 00:37:50:06
Gabe
Was.

00:37:50:07 - 00:38:06:02
Lauren
Key West. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So they go to Florida. And so that's a whole thing. So ostensibly they could be in Florida. I would be surprised, but I guess it's not impossible.

00:38:07:23 - 00:38:13:08
Gabe
You know, here's a good question. Google is Poland known for its barista shops.

00:38:14:28 - 00:38:20:24
Lauren
Anything else you want to say on her interactive now?

00:38:21:00 - 00:38:25:15
Gabe
I'm just going to I'm just going to bet it's Poland. I ain't afraid.

00:38:26:10 - 00:38:31:16
Lauren
Okay. So our main topic today.

00:38:31:16 - 00:38:33:08
Gabe
Other than our side topic.

00:38:33:19 - 00:39:35:03
Lauren
Yes. Is I in games. So we wanted to talk about just kind of what's going on with AI and what are all the conversations about how it's going to be improving games. And this is really kind of highlighted for us because the EAA CEO Electronic Arts sat with their company ACA, the CEO on their earnings call that was for and their 2022 and going forward in 2023 was saying that the video game industry will be one of the greatest beneficiaries of A.I. and that's just a yeah, it makes sense just because the video game industry, I mean, does do a lot with computers and technology.

00:39:35:03 - 00:40:04:20
Lauren
And so, yes, the anything that's going on in technology is probably going to be affecting the video game industry. But at the same time, it just kind of sends a chill down your back as currently used in a few different ways, whether that's rule based A.I., which basically is just kind of trying out how NPCs behave in certain circumstances.

00:40:05:00 - 00:40:42:14
Lauren
There's finite state machines, which is predefined patterns for non-player characters as well. So like if the if your character walks into a certain area or otherwise triggers something, then it says, Whoops, all right, let's turn on the bad guys and send them running out to go fight. And there's also pathfinding. That's again. And PCs have paths that don't take them into walls or whatever that say, yes, great.

00:40:42:14 - 00:41:16:03
Lauren
They can walk around the village and there's machine learning, of course, which is decision making based on past experiences, training, exposure to data, behavior, trees for more complex behaviors. Say if this happens, then here the three options. And then there's reinforcement learning, which is receiving feedback to the foreign penalties and rewards based on the player's actions, and then adjusts the AI's behavior to maximize those rewards.

00:41:17:04 - 00:41:29:11
Lauren
So those are the main ways that I currently is involved with games.

00:41:29:11 - 00:42:17:26
Gabe
Sorry, the goal here, I think I know how to explain it. Okay, so right A.I. is programing, right? People programed something to be able to think for itself in whatever aspect. So when I say this is types of AI is because all of these are program aimed differently like you're doing different programing to cause this to happen is not I don't know if that makes sense and I probably can't explain that well because honestly, I hate programing and I only took one class of it, but I kind of understand it and knowing if people talk about it, I kind of know what they're talking about.

00:42:19:04 - 00:42:19:17
Lauren
But I like.

00:42:20:07 - 00:42:32:16
Gabe
To program things to do this right? I don't know. Yes, but yeah. Sorry. It's kind of scary, though. I don't know if I want to.

00:42:32:19 - 00:43:02:09
Lauren
I yeah. I mean, I think like behavior trees where you say, hey, if the player does this, then I does this and then the player can do this and then not if the NPC can do this. Like those really formulated big ones where yeah, those make sense. Pathfinding. Great. You say, all right, here are all the places that they can go.

00:43:02:20 - 00:43:28:15
Lauren
Now the system can just say, Perfect, we will have them randomly decide where along this path to go. Like those all seem like they make sense. Those I don't have a problem with those because human was just like, here's the parameters. And then you guys just kind of randomize what they do within these parameters.

00:43:29:23 - 00:43:40:24
Gabe
Right? And I say it's a rule based A.I., finite state machines, A.I., right? That's like the original. Original in gaming. The basic.

00:43:41:02 - 00:43:43:19
Lauren
Mm hmm. Mm hmm.

00:43:43:19 - 00:44:03:09
Gabe
Because my guess would be is very simplistic programing. Now, that is easy, but just it's more simplistic. And then, right. This seems, in my opinion, to go kind of in order of complexity. So then pathfinding, you're still simplistic, but you're adding a little bit more.

00:44:04:26 - 00:44:05:15
Lauren
And.

00:44:11:14 - 00:44:56:08
Gabe
I feel like a really good first game where you saw Pathfinding was Pacman. I think if I remember right, I didn't really researching this. I'll be honest with you. I'm sorry. So this is going all just off of what I have in my brain. But Pacman, right. I think that was really the first game where I'm sure I think all of decades now, I think I think this is interesting this is really one of the first games are really felt like what you're playing against had a mind of its own and it is kind of freaky because it really felt like the ghosts like knew what you were doing.

00:44:56:08 - 00:45:23:27
Gabe
Like they knew how to gang up on you. They would naturally just ambush you and you're like, What is this? This is so freaky. And I don't I don't think all of the little ghosts were programed the same way because they don't all behave the same way. But in some way they figured out different programing types that would like go together.

00:45:23:27 - 00:45:45:20
Gabe
But definitely one of them determined what was the optimal path to get to you, where you going? Right. And I feel like that's where you really first see that and then right. So then the next step onto that is not just figuring out the optimal way, but also adapting to what you do. So then be right.

00:45:46:21 - 00:46:15:01
Lauren
Like an alien in the game where it just stocks you and you can be hiding in a locker and it will just hang out right there because it's just like, I have not seen you yet, but I know you're here and now I'm just going to keep getting closer and closer to you and you're going to be stuck until you have to leave and but it learns from you and it learns what you want to be doing and what you typically do.

00:46:15:01 - 00:46:20:15
Lauren
And so it says, I'm going to have to figure something else out. Mm hmm. Mm.

00:46:21:23 - 00:46:57:03
Gabe
And then you are right. Behavior, choose, behavior. Choose really makes me think, um, like a more complex butterfly effect when games try. I guess it seems like a more complex version of that finite, probably rule based, right? You give it right, you have the options and then it tells certain things to based off of kind of how you go about it do that.

00:46:57:20 - 00:47:05:07
Lauren
Mm hmm. If this, then that, then this, then that, that this, then that. Yeah.

00:47:06:07 - 00:47:17:09
Gabe
Right. But this, I think, is a little bit more it's like the next step follows that when you don't have so many finite options.

00:47:17:18 - 00:47:17:22
Lauren
Hmm.

00:47:18:02 - 00:47:27:03
Gabe
Reinforcement learning. I just hate that. I hear that. And I think of conditioning and all that I learned about conditioning and psychology.

00:47:27:13 - 00:47:30:04
Lauren
Mm hmm. Mm hmm.

00:47:31:24 - 00:47:33:06
Gabe
Carrot stick.

00:47:34:21 - 00:47:42:20
Lauren
Yeah. You want? Yeah. There's a reason the h.r. Profession elected to leave that behind.

00:47:44:12 - 00:47:46:24
Gabe
I feel like. Are you talking about benefits? Nice.

00:47:47:19 - 00:47:50:14
Lauren
You want to?

00:47:50:14 - 00:47:52:02
Gabe
Yeah, because there's.

00:47:52:02 - 00:47:53:13
Lauren
One in there that I.

00:47:54:05 - 00:47:58:06
Gabe
Don't think is a benefit, so I know you're not. Yeah, go ahead.

00:47:58:16 - 00:48:35:17
Lauren
There's this blog from Ngati. So a lot of the blog posts that I was finding on air and video games, our air companies. So I think it's really interesting to be reading through and see how they're kind of like trying to market themselves and how they're trying to say, hey, here's what's going on. I just think it's an interesting yeah, an interesting piece of marketing that they're using and to understand what they're trying to sell the public on.

00:48:36:24 - 00:49:08:23
Lauren
So Engadget has a blog I in gaming or there's a blog post I am gaming where they have this whole list of like what are the benefits of AI in games, including enhanced player experience, adaptive gameplay, more realistic and CS procedural content generation. So similar to how we were talking the other day about a Skyfall? No. Yeah, Skyrim lets the Skyrim in space.

00:49:09:29 - 00:49:17:20
Gabe
Oh, yeah. Skype. No. Uh, is this guy. So I feel like it can't be because of Skyrim, but.

00:49:18:09 - 00:49:42:17
Lauren
Skyfall or yeah. Space Skyrim anyway, where they are going to have a thousand planets. So at least some of that is going to be procedurally generated. They also have on the list intelligent game balancing as well as testing. So a, I would test everything and make sure things are balanced because you could go through a whole bunch of different scenarios.

00:49:42:18 - 00:50:32:19
Lauren
Starfield, starfield, thank you. Not necessarily having to have a human run through a lot of it. They list future innovations as one of the benefits of AI, which I think is vague. Just opening up the possibilities of future innovations in gaming like VR, mixed reality, where algorithms enhance adaptability, immersion and interactions within those environments. They also say data mining, it's a benefit of AI and gaming, which again, we're maybe scraping the bottom bottom of the barrel of benefits and then efficient testing in both detection, which is included in the intelligent game balancing and testing.

00:50:32:21 - 00:50:49:13
Lauren
So again, we have a we maybe have about four benefits that we could kind of actually talk about as being potentially beneficial at you.

00:50:49:25 - 00:50:58:28
Gabe
Sorry. So the two games of Bethesda's coming out with this year is Starfield and Red and you six.

00:50:58:28 - 00:50:59:25
Lauren
It's your Skype.

00:50:59:29 - 00:51:09:29
Gabe
Call. So as I recall, you said that my first thought was you mean the James Bond movie are we singing Nadal now.

00:51:11:19 - 00:51:12:23
Lauren
If I could, I would.

00:51:14:17 - 00:51:44:00
Gabe
Okay this these are my opinions are what amazing. Okay. For the enhanced player experience now yes, it would be a benefit. But do we need that kind of enhanced player experience? Like just because it's enhanced doesn't mean it's a good thing, you know what I mean? Or something that we need. So because what is it like?

00:51:44:06 - 00:51:49:05
Lauren
Go ahead. I just wanted to read their description of the enhanced player experience.

00:51:50:06 - 00:51:51:05
Gabe
Okay. Go for it.

00:51:51:12 - 00:52:15:15
Lauren
Creating lifelike situational developments. Progress in the game adds excitement to the game play lifelike situational developments, increasing complexity in games with A.I. ensures gamers are hooked to the game. With the rise of different gaming devices, gamers expect to have immersive experience across various devices. Go ahead.

00:52:16:11 - 00:52:44:06
Gabe
So when I when I hear this right in the lifelike thing, this is my thought. Yes, I want to be immersed. I don't want the immersion to cause my in real life anxiety to come out or my depression or my other things. I don't want to have to result in this one. One of them. Oh, no, we'll get to that down.

00:52:44:06 - 00:53:12:24
Gabe
Okay. There's a different one I'll get to. But just like I game to do things I can't do, to be things I have to be. But also because gaming doesn't require everything from you. Like life does. You know what I mean? It's it's like a burdens being lifted off you when you play. So that's where I say, sure, it will enhance player experience, but is that a good thing?

00:53:12:27 - 00:53:39:18
Gabe
So I don't know if that's necessarily benefit. It's more of a questionable area. Adaptive gameplay. Okay, sure. However, I feel like this goes with data mining. I think those are it's like the same thing and they just tried to make it seem like it's not. Data mining I think is very dangerous and gives them way too much power because they could do anything with it.

00:53:39:18 - 00:53:43:23
Gabe
So I'm going to go with that's a con actually article.

00:53:43:26 - 00:54:15:03
Lauren
So fairly fair description of adaptive gameplay is that AI algorithms can analyze the behavior of players, learning patterns, mechanics, game speed, ensuring that players are consistently challenged and avoid monotony, which again sounds very, very similar to the enhanced player experience. Right. Like I don't it's because the enhanced player experiences increasing complexity in games with A.I. based on how the players are doing.

00:54:15:14 - 00:54:16:24
Lauren
That's well.

00:54:17:23 - 00:54:45:05
Gabe
I feel like you could say adaptive gameplay would be the step up, so you could enhance the experience without necessarily having to go and gather all of that information, dig through all of that information. The kind of adaptive gear gameplay they're talking about is like the next step where you're just getting all of the information and then trying to do something with it.

00:54:45:29 - 00:55:02:04
Gabe
And like I, there's a lot of people would probably disagree, but the stuff you can learn from behavior of players, how they learn can like they could take that so that information and whoever bought it could use that against you.

00:55:02:25 - 00:55:25:21
Lauren
I have a great idea for adaptive gameplay. You can choose if you want to play on easy mode or hard. I elected for myself. This is what I want to be doing. I want to be doing easy mode. If I want to really challenge myself, I'll do hard mode, done dusted. Mm hmm.

00:55:27:28 - 00:55:57:20
Gabe
Okay. The realistic NPCs. There's something I want to say about this, but I kind of forgot what it was. This just freaks me out. This makes me think of some older movie that I watched with my dad, and it's a I. It's such an old movie. I saw Schwarzenegger, and that's a different one. That's a it's not Terminator.

00:55:58:15 - 00:56:04:22
Gabe
No. Because that's just a little bit different old movie about it's taking over.

00:56:06:27 - 00:56:08:28
Lauren
I'm not like and.

00:56:09:25 - 00:56:23:15
Gabe
I don't think is demon see now it I can see it so clearly in my head but I could not.

00:56:23:21 - 00:56:27:13
Lauren
When you say older, how much older you.

00:56:28:19 - 00:56:31:28
Gabe
Probably eighties or nineties like definitely before he's not.

00:56:31:28 - 00:56:35:06
Lauren
Bladerunner.

00:56:35:06 - 00:56:54:29
Gabe
I don't know. I don't and that is fine. It's fine. NPC okay. You know what, I don't think that's a, I don't think it's a benefit realistic and sounds scary. I don't want to. Oh I remember where my rant was going. Okay. Because in the, in the right, the enhanced player experience and I was like, I don't want to have to deal with the issues of the real world.

00:56:55:18 - 00:57:15:08
Gabe
I don't want to have to deal with are the characters in the game get to like me or not? I don't want to have to worry about. Do I need to say how are you to an NPC? No offense, I definitely care about me in pieces, but I don't want to have to deal with all the social stuff that you have to do in real life.

00:57:15:27 - 00:57:21:19
Gabe
That's kind of a nice thing. Sometimes about games is like you don't have all that pressure.

00:57:22:29 - 00:57:48:28
Lauren
I'm also just really curious what kind of games they had in mind when they were coming up with this list. Like, were they thinking of a game like Fallout where there's a lot of different people and a lot of different pieces and you're running around and you want to be interacting with them, but you're also shooting a lot of them.

00:57:48:28 - 00:58:15:25
Lauren
Or is it something where you're, you know, interacting with a group of humans and it's less like GTA? Are they thinking of this sort of thing for GTA or anything else? Where there's a lot of murder and chaos and ridiculousness?

00:58:15:25 - 00:58:40:14
Gabe
I'm so embarrassed. I think it was maybe a Blade Runner. I hear Blade Runner, the original or the original one that they're doing. I hear Blade Runner and I think like I think I was thinking about Tron. I think that's what I was thinking of. And I was like, It's not that. And yeah, because isn't okay. The main guy, right?

00:58:40:14 - 00:58:57:22
Gabe
He's the Indiana Jones guy, Harrison Ford. He's human, right? But like everyone, he's basically having to fight and deal with is is a I I'm so embarrassed if it really is Blade Runner. And I was like, no, we're.

00:58:57:23 - 00:59:05:16
Lauren
But I know you're like, he's famous. I like I didn't say Harrison Ford, but I said have said Harrison Ford because that might have I.

00:59:05:16 - 00:59:06:18
Gabe
Think I'm right of better.

00:59:07:00 - 00:59:15:15
Lauren
Yeah. Yeah. Because they're like interacting with like replicants and such. And he's a replicant hunter.

00:59:15:15 - 00:59:20:06
Gabe
Yeah. Because he. Yeah.

00:59:20:06 - 00:59:20:14
Lauren
Okay.

00:59:21:15 - 00:59:38:02
Gabe
That game, that movie traumatized me. I don't know how much I can specifically remember it because I think I only watched a couple of times when I was younger and then I was like, okay, but I was right. Though it's an older movie, like I could picture how the graphics of it looked. I was like, I don't know, it feels like eighties.

00:59:38:02 - 01:00:05:01
Gabe
I said nineties to not embarrass myself, but I really felt like it was a movie from the eighties. That's so funny. I know my dad would have definitely been like Blade Runner, you idiot. To pursue okay, pursue a content procedural content generation. So like you were talking about with the Starfield, I think that's definitely a benefit. But are they able to do that without basically doing the data mining?

01:00:05:01 - 01:00:08:04
Gabe
But yeah, go ahead.

01:00:08:04 - 01:00:20:07
Lauren
I mean, I think it goes into also benefits of AI, benefits for who.

01:00:21:20 - 01:00:25:06
Gabe
Exactly. That's good point because it's and.

01:00:25:11 - 01:00:52:15
Lauren
If we're talking to like company leadership or it's just like, hey, you'll be able to create a bunch of new games without having a major impact. We're having to hire a bunch of people. Then it's like, okay, yeah. So we could run around and say, Great, we're going to have a thousand planets. Because if all of them had to be handmade, then yeah, it'd be.

01:00:52:15 - 01:01:15:13
Lauren
It would take a long time. You would have to have more people versus if you can just do A.I., then it's like, All right, cool. Just pop that often. I think I mentioned a couple of times in my notes on this, so we might talk about it again, but very much, at least right now, there's a lot of mentality from what I've been reading about.

01:01:15:28 - 01:01:22:29
Lauren
I kind of drafts and then humans edit or kind of use it as a jumping off point.

01:01:23:22 - 01:01:28:06
Gabe
So see, I think that would be a benefit. I would say that's an actual benefit.

01:01:28:27 - 01:01:49:05
Lauren
Right, right, right. Here's kind of general idea of what we're looking for. A.I. goes and makes it, and then the humans can pass along behind and be like, Perfect. Okay, here's this planet. Do I like it? Does it make sense? How can I change it around and then counsel along?

01:01:49:05 - 01:02:15:21
Gabe
You know, looking at all of these, I feel like they all are basically like, how do you do it without just being data mining? If you can do it without that, then sure, intelligent game balancing testing, that would be great. That would take a lot of work off. You wouldn't have to get maybe as much feedback from players right about bugs and it would be patched faster and all of that.

01:02:15:21 - 01:02:38:03
Gabe
That would be great. Like you said, efficient testing, bug detection, that's the intelligent game. Also testing. So I like the ridiculous. All right feature and I think that's your next section. I'm glad cloud based gaming is back in here. I remember when I had a freaking try and describe cloud based gaming to you and you're like apps.

01:02:39:20 - 01:03:07:03
Lauren
Yeah. So this same article that we were just reading, so have a couple points on the future in A.I. that includes cloud based gaming. So again, not having to be attached to we're not having to download the game, just being able to play it directly from like your steam account or whatever, blockchain based gaming, which just sounds like a nightmare.

01:03:07:06 - 01:03:13:22
Lauren
And B Isn't blockchain like really, really bad for the environment? So what I'm thinking, I.

01:03:13:22 - 01:03:16:18
Gabe
Have no I have no idea what blockchain means.

01:03:17:00 - 01:03:18:05
Lauren
Because blockchain.

01:03:18:10 - 01:03:20:03
Gabe
I have no that mixed.

01:03:24:22 - 01:04:17:09
Lauren
In. It's a type of distributed database or ledger, which means the power hold on bitcoin. Yeah. So blockchain is Bitcoin mining, which is really, really, really bad for the environment. It apparently is pretty or allegedly fairly private. So it increases like security and and minimizes traceability of data shared across the network. So it's the privacy is good, which again is why it's used in crypto and bitcoin because you can kind of lock stuff down and keep it relatively secure, but it also just takes so much energy to run or do anything and it's really, really bad for the environment.

01:04:17:27 - 01:04:42:20
Lauren
So that makes me nervous that they would be like, Oh yeah, we could do that with gaming. Just gaming. I mean, already takes a lot of energy, a lot of the times anyway, and then voice or audio recognition based games. And they were explaining that with voice recognition and gaming users can the gaming gestures monitor the controls, sideline the role of a controller?

01:04:42:20 - 01:05:17:10
Lauren
So again, that's moving more into like the we fit kind of thing of just jumping around or using your voice to say shoot the arrow or run forward or do whatever. And so it's listening to your voice and I'm really interested to know how that would work, like different languages, because we know that a lot of big companies is and especially small companies, but like big companies, even like Facebook or anything like that, have a lot of translation issues.

01:05:17:10 - 01:05:52:08
Lauren
So I'd be really curious to know what on earth would go on there and if it would be, you know, cool for English, maybe French, Spanish, maybe one of the languages in China or Japan, depending on who's coming up with it. But I yeah, I think it's, I think it's definitely an interesting idea and I feel like it's probably pretty far away.

01:05:54:03 - 01:06:17:29
Lauren
But then wearables support gaming and VR gaming. So again, we're going back into kind of the metaverse feeling of like, okay, go sit down. Your little meeting is going to figure out like how you're sitting and how you're looking and making yourself putting yourself into the game, which all feels very Scooby-Doo.

01:06:20:17 - 01:06:22:12
Lauren
Cyber Chase. Cyber firsts.

01:06:22:12 - 01:06:26:06
Gabe
Every chase to snatch cyberspace was a kids show.

01:06:26:13 - 01:06:39:24
Lauren
Well, I know that. Cyber chase and the cyber chase. That's right. Scooby Doo in the cyber chase, the one with the blue energy boy where they go into a video game. Oh.

01:06:40:07 - 01:06:42:01
Gabe
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:06:43:21 - 01:07:27:03
Lauren
And then finally improved and mobile experience because as we talked, there are a lot of mobile games out there and so just kind of amping them up and making them even more immersive and functional. That's why this one company thinks and I it's going to go and there was game designing dot org which had a post talking about I about how I can generate worlds and more complex NPC movements.

01:07:27:17 - 01:08:04:29
Lauren
They were definitely talking about some of the true issues with I talking about how if I is just kind of left to its own devices to create bigger and bigger things like levels or whole games without oversight, I can just kind of like run along and get weirder and more specific that will may affect play ability. And I adored the fact and this is a direct quote that they were like, do we want game characters to bully us if we wear silly costumes?

01:08:05:20 - 01:08:27:00
Lauren
So I could create its own social codes or again, code going into that quote unquote realistic where it's you're in a world that is controlling and making rules of and you are trying to figure out, Oh, well, I want to play this game and I want to kind of do my own thing or I want to wander out to these things.

01:08:27:00 - 01:08:37:24
Lauren
And I could say, Oh, no, that's actually limited. No, we don't want that to happen. Another thing which I really wanted to talk.

01:08:37:24 - 01:08:58:09
Gabe
About, if A.I. starts coming at me and telling me what is socially acceptable is not acceptable, I'm ending it all. And I don't mean me. I mean the effect. If a character of my games, it's been like harassing me for my social cues or my outfits or whatever.

01:08:58:26 - 01:08:59:18
Lauren
They're done.

01:09:01:07 - 01:09:13:03
Gabe
They're for. And the A.I. policeman We're going to try and send me to jail. They're done. Do Everybody is going down anyway so sorry.

01:09:13:12 - 01:09:48:09
Lauren
So the article is talking about how A.I. with their predictive and adjusted gameplay, they might create games that are too hard. They if they get into kind of a cycle of saying, oop, they beat that level, okay, next one's going to be harder. Like they could just get into a cycle where everything just becomes super, super hard to the point where it's going to be impossible for a player to beat it because they keep making it harder and harder and harder.

01:09:48:09 - 01:10:15:00
Lauren
Another thing which I really care about is when humans make games, they add in little Easter eggs or little silly little comments or things that are not related to the plot side quests. They attend side quests because they want people to like have fun and enjoy what they're doing. So even in a serious game, they added bits of levity and I don't.

01:10:15:10 - 01:10:49:03
Lauren
And depending on how the AI is trained or rocking and rolling, who knows what we might lose on that piece? If humans are taken out of the equation? So the article definitely was talking about how the games might become just really kind of almost mechanical in their kind of, yep, you do this and then you do this and then we're going to get you all the way through to the end and then you're out of the game.

01:10:49:03 - 01:10:59:21
Gabe
I feel like they're just going to suck all the fun out of gaming. Yeah. Because does the does a right really know what fun is a nonsense.

01:10:59:21 - 01:11:27:29
Lauren
We develop it at once, we tell it how to have fun. But again, if they're creating and then humans are editing or trialing, again, it's talking about like what technology is supposed to do for us. Is it supposed to take away the the boring menial labor? But we don't want to deal. And that's boring and exhausting and can be just like easy for something to take care of.

01:11:27:29 - 01:11:46:23
Lauren
And so then being able to add the art and the interest in the brain and the fun and, the the pieces that make it kind of a human creation can be going in once kind of that base level work is done. I think that makes perfect sense. Mm.

01:11:47:10 - 01:12:21:29
Gabe
No, I agree. And it would help speed along the process which I mean that, that would allow people to do other stuff or to do more right. Like that frees up some of their time. I just thought, I don't want to air to take their jobs. I feel like you need the human touch. So if it can be used to help them to maybe free up some of their time to focus on other stuff which could make the game better, I think I think does great.

01:12:22:01 - 01:12:24:21
Gabe
I think that's a really good tool for them.

01:12:24:24 - 01:13:06:26
Lauren
And I was reading an article on Polygon, which was written by Nicole Carpenter, who goes by the handle Sweet Potatoes. So obviously I was just like, I love her. So she was writing an article about chat specifically, and she was talking exactly on that and saying that there are people who see chat JPT when it comes to writing scripts or otherwise writing codes for a game of, Well, this is a great way to free up some game writers to work on more creative projects.

01:13:06:26 - 01:13:39:08
Lauren
And to some of those people who want to like focus on kind of higher level work, like perfect, great. But then other people are worried that that tech it's going to raise kind of entry level game jobs. Junior writers are sometimes tasked with writing the really basic kind of menial labor things because it's, you know, they're early days, they're learning, it's part of their job building their whole job, but it's something that's important for them to do.

01:13:39:22 - 01:14:20:02
Lauren
So again, thinking about how people can get in the industry and what sort of jobs we need or we can use as a building block versus truly the kind of stuff that nobody wants do. I don't know. But it's a weird, slippery slope because if I can do it for cheaper than a human, any time companies can save money, whether they send the job overseas, whether they lay people off and then have, you know, one person doing three different jobs, they're going to make that financial decision.

01:14:20:13 - 01:14:54:27
Lauren
So having it available and having it ready to rock and roll and be cheaper than paying a junior writer business and says, don't get a junior writer, then there's no one to train the junior writers. And then we're stuck because there's no way to break into the industry. And then the only people in the industry are continuing to age up because there's no one coming in behind them to be learning from them.

01:14:54:29 - 01:15:01:15
Lauren
And then we're just going to lose all of their knowledge and experience and skills.

01:15:01:15 - 01:15:04:16
Gabe
My dad's been dealing with that stuff in the IT department.

01:15:04:25 - 01:15:15:20
Lauren
You know? Oh yeah, right, right.

01:15:15:20 - 01:15:36:22
Gabe
I get why companies make that financial decision, but also I feel like sometimes they don't think about the long run and like, okay, you're going to save a little bit, but in the long run, how is that going to affect things? Like, Are you really still going to partner it or is it going to end up hurting you in the end if it hurts you?

01:15:36:22 - 01:15:42:27
Gabe
Or is it really worth the few extra dollars you saved? Yeah, go ahead.

01:15:44:13 - 01:15:48:04
Lauren
Or the 40 or $50,000 you saved.

01:15:49:06 - 01:15:50:02
Gabe
Right? Yeah.

01:15:50:15 - 01:16:51:22
Lauren
I mean, if you're paying ten K for A.I., they can do all of the A.I. that you need or you can pay a junior writer. 35 K or even T, even if you're saving 10,000. Does that make the financial sense for the company? And at that point they're thinking of what's going to make sense for their payroll. Then they'll have an extra 10,000 to spend on a higher level person or get somebody promoted like there's just a lot of things to think about in the financials and in the payroll of a company and it's just so unfortunate because so many times companies will say, well, because we don't know what's going to happen this year,

01:16:51:22 - 01:17:06:25
Lauren
because we don't think we can afford everything this year, we're going to take the easier way out. And then it's really, really hard once you've done that, once you have that pay out of payroll, it's really, really hard to put it back in.

01:17:08:03 - 01:17:15:14
Gabe
Yeah, yeah. Wait, did they say anything about how it could affect indie developers with what you're reading?

01:17:16:24 - 01:17:41:14
Lauren
Yeah. So they were talking about well they were talking about the expense they were talking about at the expense of a I and how some of the bigger companies would be able to or would be more equipped to buy it, play around with it, really expand on it, really get the full benefits of for better or for worse.

01:17:42:00 - 01:18:10:00
Lauren
And so if a company, if bigger companies are able to buy and therefore make games cheaper and faster and smaller indie companies who maybe can't afford either to that level or at all, it's just going to be harder for them to compete just because it's using an all human task force or as much as they can afford it.

01:18:10:01 - 01:18:46:10
Lauren
It's going to be slower. It is going to be more expensive. It's it feels almost similar to like fast fashion in that with automation with a AI, they can start pumping stuff out on a way faster rate quality may be going down because if they are, you know, testing all of the bugs using AI, there's going to be stuff humans find that I did not find or there's going to be things that AI is just like, Oh, we need to fix this that maybe should not have been fixed.

01:18:46:10 - 01:19:10:27
Lauren
And it's now like a bummer that it's gone versus the indie games, which right now are on the cheaper side because they're typically shorter, they're typically, you know, just have less resources involved. The indie gamers or the indie developer is trying to make more of a name for themselves. So they're trying to appeal to a broader audience by having a lower pay it.

01:19:11:10 - 01:19:15:27
Lauren
It's going to be interesting.

01:19:15:27 - 01:19:38:06
Gabe
I feel like the key of indie developers is that they cause innovation in games. It causes triple-A games to not be able to be so generic and repetitive, you know, because indie games, indie developers, indie games bring.

01:19:38:06 - 01:19:38:21
Lauren
New.

01:19:39:09 - 01:19:41:21
Gabe
Concepts to the table, new ideas.

01:19:42:06 - 01:19:42:11
Lauren
And.

01:19:42:11 - 01:20:03:19
Gabe
Stuff. So if you get rid of the direct competition and what causes there to be, you know, what can we do better? How can we improve? What whatever I. Just I feel like that would destroy the gaming industry. Like games would just be disgusting.

01:20:04:10 - 01:20:31:12
Lauren
Well, in similar fast fashion, right where stuff comes out and hours later a version of it is available on Sheahan or whatever. And so if there's if companies, big companies start really relying on AI or start saying, hey, you know, we can are they this little indie company is putting out a game about this. Let's look at trailer.

01:20:31:25 - 01:21:06:03
Lauren
Have I write up something we can put something out really quick similar price point or lower since we made it and they I we didn't have to pay all of our humans hundreds of hours for this so we can put it out and be a direct competition with limited warning and limited resources who've. So again, this kind of goes back into why why do we play video games.

01:21:07:14 - 01:21:47:21
Lauren
This is what is the excitement from? Is it from just speed running through mediocre games or is it the joy of like playing something that really, really moves you with limited human interaction? I would be surprised if we were running into genuinely like moving games, like the ones you and I have been talking about over the past year, especially the ones that we've talked about in our a female developer spotlight.

01:21:47:21 - 01:22:17:21
Lauren
It's where all of those games are very personal and they're stories and you learn a lot and you grow and you cope with things and if you're just writing in to chat GPT or your AI builder or whatever and you're saying, Hey, build me something about a princess who gets kidnaped and a plumber goes to save her, and it does that.

01:22:17:21 - 01:22:33:18
Lauren
Is that going to have is what they is what the AI comes up with, going to have the same impact and humanity that a game created by humans for humans.

01:22:33:18 - 01:22:38:21
Gabe
I can't believe you pulled Mario into this.

01:22:38:21 - 01:22:39:14
Lauren
Okay, sorry.

01:22:39:18 - 01:22:42:00
Gabe
And then you weren't even going to name drop him.

01:22:42:18 - 01:23:17:12
Lauren
Chat graffiti in the Polygon article they were specifically talking about chat GPT involved in Pokemon Emerald. So somebody was just like, Hey, I want to build Pokemon Pokemon L Emerald Isle? Now let me get this really quick um it port so chat GPT didn't output code for pokemon emerald it pulled from its knowledge of the Pokemon game to walk through it.

01:23:17:12 - 01:23:47:03
Lauren
So basically someone is just like make a game based on pokemon emerald so it Chachi generated a basically a text adventure that responds to player prompts Dan Dan Dan Dan gond who did the experiment and told Polygon, quote, The best analogy to what's happening is that it's kind of like asking a friend to pretend to be Pokemon for you.

01:23:48:08 - 01:24:09:15
Lauren
That kind of experience is only as good as your friend's memory of the game, and GPT four seems to know a surprising amount about the game. Okay, so currently AI is just like, oh, let me just tell you a story about the game and you can kind of say, oh, what if this happens? And then I'll tell you what was going to happen.

01:24:10:08 - 01:24:44:18
Lauren
Ubisoft unveiled a generative AI tool in March of this year of 2023. They called it Ghost Writer, and this one is allegedly supposed to help writers, not replace them. So again, the AI is drafting and then the humans are editing the writing. Okay. Right. Does it make sense to just have a junior writer who's coming up with things and draft something up so that senior writers can take it and go and explore?

01:24:44:18 - 01:24:44:28
Gabe
Yeah.

01:24:45:00 - 01:25:06:09
Lauren
Or does it make sense to have I do it and have a junior writer do something else? How do people learn? How do people grow and or making you stresses spaghetti?

01:25:07:25 - 01:25:08:12
Gabe
Yeah.

01:25:10:01 - 01:25:16:25
Lauren
Yeah. This is my idea for an episode. So I take full responsibility for this.

01:25:16:25 - 01:25:22:03
Gabe
So I send my suffering. Can we go to female.

01:25:22:03 - 01:25:24:27
Lauren
Developers finally and we.

01:25:24:27 - 01:25:31:08
Gabe
Can feel like this just gave me so much more anxiety that I earn.

01:25:31:18 - 01:25:38:00
Lauren
It better. So we have an immense palate cleanser right now. Our developers.

01:25:38:00 - 01:25:40:21
Gabe
Follows this. Our our moonshot.

01:25:41:06 - 01:25:41:26
Lauren
Needs.

01:25:42:20 - 01:25:43:23
Gabe
To cleanse their palette.

01:25:43:23 - 01:26:33:04
Lauren
We're talking today about Danny launders who pronouns. He and they are a non blind, non-binary black woman who majored in communications undergrad, and they're a lead producer and narrative designer, community managing manager for various different fandoms. But the reason we are talking about Danny Landers is because they're ahead developer for a gate, a graphic novel, a visual novel called validate struggling singles in your area and so it's a novel in which you maneuver yourself through the twisting path of young adulthood.

01:26:33:04 - 01:26:59:22
Lauren
And it's full of characters of all different races, all different sexualities. It can be played on switch. The graphic style reminds me a lot of boyfriend dungeon, but basically you just go through and have conversations and figure out who you want to date and it's happy and people fall in love and it's so cute and it's so sweet.

01:26:59:25 - 01:27:34:06
Lauren
And there are a lot of articles and a lot of excitement over what Danny and her team has been working on. They started or they're the CEO of Veritable Joy Studios. So you can see that's just kind of the game plan. And the studio is designed to tell diverse stories from perspectives that are often ignored and silenced especially putting them in situations full of joy and full of love.

01:27:35:02 - 01:28:13:13
Lauren
There was an interview in 2020 Validate came out in 2021. There was an interview in 2020 where Danny was mentioning they had about 27 game developers of color were employed by the studios. So I don't know what the studios look like now, but at least back then there were about 27, 28. So gaming mag G-A-Y Manji Malcolm had a whole article because GLAAD's has a series of change makers videos about change makers, and Danny is there episode three.

01:28:14:20 - 01:28:42:27
Lauren
And so it's well, put a link to that in the description so you can watch it. It's just a five minute video and it's just really interesting. They say Validate is special in that it prioritizes characters from a range of different cultures and puts them in the protagonist role. When we're in games, we're typically side characters and Danny, of course, is talking about people of color whenever a love interest.

01:28:43:04 - 01:29:43:00
Lauren
And when we are, we're a love interest to a character who often dies. Oftentimes when people are putting people of color in media, it's to fill a diversity quota. It's having their token character. So Leland named this process as creating without care due to the creation process, not actually valuing the character being put into the world. So Danny is very focused on creating joyful experiences for all of her different in various interviews, especially on their Changemakers episode, they talk a lot about the racism they faced in the gaming industry when they were first starting, and especially when it was kind of behind a screen and similar kind of game to what you've experiencing on like

01:29:43:00 - 01:30:16:29
Lauren
the major sexism front. But Danny, of course, is also getting racial slurs involved in there and. So Danny is really talking about like different lenses when it comes to game development and creation, which is why they have so many creators, part of their studio to get those different perspectives. And Danny, again in the Change Makers video says that she knows she doesn't share all of the experiences of her characters there, is someone out there who does.

01:30:17:10 - 01:30:54:12
Lauren
And so it's very much trying to find that the varied perspectives that someone can connect to, especially someone who maybe doesn't get to connect to characters a lot. And Danny said they're not doing it for themselves, they're doing it for the gaming industry to really try to fight the status quo. Essence also interview nude Danny and was saying or Danny was explaining that they fell in love with gaming from back when they were playing on their Gameboy and then on the computer.

01:30:54:25 - 01:30:59:22
Lauren
So playing games like Lizzie McGuire on the Go for Fish Pajama.

01:31:01:23 - 01:31:02:17
Gabe
Pajama Sam.

01:31:02:23 - 01:31:16:24
Lauren
They say pajama with Sam. It's Pajama Sam and Barbie is John Sam. So point and click mystery. We love to see it. Now he's still.

01:31:16:24 - 01:31:17:29
Gabe
Only part of all of.

01:31:17:29 - 01:31:18:17
Lauren
These.

01:31:19:02 - 01:31:21:23
Gabe
Side.

01:31:21:23 - 01:31:36:21
Lauren
They told Essence, I used to only play family friendly games because I was so scared of dying in the game. I eventually just kind of play more games to the point where I was an undergrad. I realized I can start making games myself. I don't have to rely on everyone else to make the games that I want to play.

01:31:38:06 - 01:32:20:11
Lauren
So when Danny was working on Validate, Validate received the support of Xbox, and so it was funded in part by their new, I guess kind of Xbox developer acceleration program, which seeks to empower underrepresented creators and so validate available to all Xbox users. It's on the switch, but being able to, you know, get the support of Xbox really helped the game kind of get out there.

01:32:20:11 - 01:32:53:03
Lauren
Yeah. So Danny is in their mid latest twenties mid-twenties, so there is a lot that we'll be seeing from them and from Veritable Joy Studios that there are really only a few years out of college and similar to other developers we've talked about where it's a lot about like communication and a lot of just storytelling in relation ship building.

01:32:53:23 - 01:33:33:27
Lauren
It's yeah, very similar. Well I'm going to create something that will give me joy and will give interaction and a happy experience. There is another game that they were working on. Oh, Spirit Swap Cast spells be queer and Crash the biggest concert of the year. It's an action adventure puzzle game. We're an action puzzle game set in a lush, narrative driven world of witchy demons, and the animation.

01:33:34:01 - 01:33:35:10
Gabe
Has seen right.

01:33:35:10 - 01:33:36:14
Lauren
And exciting.

01:33:37:05 - 01:33:39:27
Gabe
I feel like I've seen stuff like that on Twitter.

01:33:40:20 - 01:33:54:16
Lauren
Yeah, it's probably yeah, it's probably on its way out. Like it'll be out soon. I don't think it's out yet.

01:33:54:16 - 01:34:13:14
Gabe
I was wondering. I didn't yeah. I don't think it's out. Yeah. So I think I've seen so far on Twitter, i was wondering if the reason you chose this topic was because your inner h.r. Came out and you're like, oh, my gosh, how is this going to affect my people? I mean, i know you don't work with game developers, but just you know what I mean?

01:34:13:14 - 01:34:14:21
Gabe
I Mean maybe you do. Sorry.

01:34:15:15 - 01:34:58:15
Lauren
Oh, I don't work with game developers, but absolutely AI is something that people talk about how it is involved in h.r. And how it's involved in recruitment and all of that just makes me very, very nervous. But I think any industry that is trying to get rid of low level, not grunt work, but just beginner work and replace it with a i is going to save money on the bottom line, but I so wonder how people.

01:34:58:15 - 01:34:59:22
Gabe
Are going to lose knowledge.

01:35:00:00 - 01:35:15:15
Lauren
Break into the industries or break into the kind of jobs because of the only things that are available are people who have five years of experience in the thing. How do people get started? MM.

01:35:15:15 - 01:35:17:01
Gabe
And we already deal with that.

01:35:17:01 - 01:35:17:24
Lauren
You know.

01:35:18:28 - 01:35:35:18
Gabe
When I've, the times when I've applied to jobs and I've heard this from ten friends to like, it can be so hard because so many of them are like, well, we want you to have experience, but like how are you going to get the experience? If you need experience to do it?

01:35:36:10 - 01:36:10:02
Lauren
And nine times out of ten they don't need experience. Yeah, that you don't let me and that nine times out of ten tonight they don't need for you to have had experience in order to do the job. But they do not have resources to train you and get you up to speed to do the job. They don't have the ability to say, okay, this person's coming in with no experience in six months, they'll be good to go.

01:36:10:02 - 01:36:24:23
Lauren
But the first three months we're going to have to do a lot more hand-holding. And quite frankly, right now, most companies are running so slim that they don't have the resources to handhold, which it just.

01:36:24:23 - 01:36:27:11
Gabe
Seems like they're ultimately hurting themselves.

01:36:27:24 - 01:36:51:20
Lauren
Oh, 100% because people keep quitting and they're like, Well, we need somebody who can just jump in and be a turnkey. And part of that is kind of bitterness that our generation job pops because there are so many companies that are just like, Well, I don't want to spend a year training this person up for them to get stolen by my competitors.

01:36:52:08 - 01:36:57:03
Lauren
So I'm just like, we're not going to do training programs and.

01:36:57:03 - 01:36:58:25
Gabe
We're talking millennials, right?

01:36:58:25 - 01:37:06:02
Lauren
Yeah. Well, I mean, millennials, Gen Z. Yeah. And you have.

01:37:06:02 - 01:37:06:23
Gabe
So many.

01:37:06:27 - 01:37:36:00
Lauren
Anyone who is job hopping around, there are so many companies that have not emotionally adjusted to it or just kind of don't want to deal with it and say, okay, well, you know, we're just going to hire people who have had five years experience and they'll be able to jump in, be at the top of their game. And then if they end up leaving after a year and a half, whatever, fine.

01:37:36:00 - 01:37:53:06
Gabe
I could not stand my peers out. But I did not mean to send you discord messages. I play this making peace message fire. Yeah, it's a it's a period because I keep dragging my nail in the cracks of the computer because it's satisfying for me. I don't know.

01:37:54:24 - 01:37:55:12
Lauren
Things.

01:37:58:23 - 01:38:23:06
Gabe
Like in high school and college, because all of them felt like they were so entitled to like like be making like 60 K right off the bat and like have all these benefits and be able to do this, this and this. And it was so mind boggling to me. It was so baffling to me. It was like, did your parents never teach you that?

01:38:23:06 - 01:38:53:01
Gabe
It's just not how it works. You have to put in the time to earn that. Like you're not entitled to that. That's not something you just give when you've given nothing to whoever you know. Like you had to put your nose to the grinder and go. And when you show that kind of dedication and skill and that you know you are an investment, then the company invests in you, right?

01:38:53:01 - 01:39:16:20
Gabe
That's that's just how it is. And they're just like, well, it shouldn't be this way. It's like you work hard when you're young, when your body can take it, when you can do it so that when you're older, you can have fun and not have to be pushing yourself to such extremes. You know what I mean?

01:39:17:04 - 01:39:41:16
Lauren
Young people are hungry. They want to learn. Yeah, they want to gain experience so that they can learn and be able to move up. And we have so many problems in some of our departments where they're like, Oh, it's so hard to hire all these senior people. We're like, Great. You've got a whole bunch of junior people who have been in their job for seven years.

01:39:41:16 - 01:40:17:26
Lauren
MM Yeah. You if you cannot promote them, what are you guys doing? Mm hmm. What do you mean? They're not at the level you need them to be. Train them, get them up there. Stop hiring all these external people for buckets of money. When we have a bunch of people who have been here for seven years hoping that we will give them a shot like it seems on the outside looking at the department, it seems so logical.

01:40:18:16 - 01:40:22:21
Lauren
It's like it's so hard.

01:40:22:21 - 01:40:23:26
Gabe
To comprehend just.

01:40:25:06 - 01:40:46:22
Lauren
Why they don't do it. But they the it's my company is a little older, so there's just a lot of mindsets that haven't quite grown up yet, but it's, it's really interesting.

01:40:46:27 - 01:41:11:18
Gabe
So banana you know what I think doesn't how to dispose of the same as we were talking about this is you've got like all the TikTok and stuff and influencers who like show these like wild, outlandish lifestyles and stuff. And I feel like that further cements the idea that they should then be entitled to stuff that's just wild.

01:41:12:00 - 01:41:23:21
Lauren
Well, and especially people who go into computer science who get their computer science degree, don't get offered a developer job upon graduation.

01:41:24:18 - 01:41:25:00
Gabe
No.

01:41:25:15 - 01:41:46:07
Lauren
And then just say, well, that's all I want to be doing. I don't want to start at a lower level or I don't want to start doing something, you know, close to it, but not they're like, no, I graduated intending to be a software developer and that's what I should be.

01:41:46:16 - 01:42:06:22
Gabe
But it's like, it's not that simple, you buffoon, right? Like you need experience. There's so much you just don't know. And they that you don't know that you don't know. And, and that low level stuff is where you start learning it so that you can perform the higher level jobs.

01:42:06:22 - 01:42:11:16
Lauren
Right. And so using AI to take those lower level jobs away.

01:42:12:11 - 01:42:13:00
Gabe
They're not going to.

01:42:13:00 - 01:42:55:15
Lauren
Get an because they are going to easy and yes, a chat GPT or an AI sure could come up with those basic level codes. But again, the human who should be or who is learning how to put those things together is just going to miss out on a lot of that. And we're going to be left with a bunch of people who know how to edit maybe a AI code, but don't know how to do a lot of building stuff up from the ground, up.

01:42:55:15 - 01:43:16:04
Gabe
But then you lose all that knowledge too, because when the old people leave, you don't have that knowledge transfer, which is what my dad's been fighting with a ton. I don't i.t is that none of this knowledge transfer is allowed to happen because they're just getting rid of all the old people and bringing in new people who don't know anything.

01:43:17:06 - 01:43:45:00
Gabe
And so then these new people, because it's pretty much just my dad left who's who has like, you know, ten plus years and more than that of experience. Right. And so he he has to deal with these. I feel really bad for him, too. He deals with our generation as stuff that he always gets reviews that he's too mean.

01:43:45:22 - 01:44:26:23
Gabe
He doesn't listen to them. He he's always telling them what to do. But that one really gets to be what our generation hates from people, tells us what to do. The like. It's they know more than you, you know, like they're not being rude. They just know more they've done. And this is the biggest one he fights is they will go and do something and instead of listening to him they go in do some like make a mistake that he could have told them would cause that to happen would be a mistake.

01:44:26:23 - 01:44:53:11
Gabe
Like, you know, like if you did that, then the programing would fail or whatever. Right? And so they just wasted days, hours, days, weeks doing something that he could have told them from his experience wouldn't work. He could have quickly explained it and they'd be like, Oh, okay, you know what I mean? And that. And that's what will happen in the game, even if, like you said, the AI takes over those lower jobs.

01:44:53:11 - 01:44:55:03
Gabe
Lesser jobs, or if you want to call them.

01:44:55:06 - 01:44:59:24
Lauren
Hmm.

01:44:59:24 - 01:45:18:14
Gabe
Is today. Tuesday, of course, is Tuesday. We're recording. I don't know why, but I was talking about that suddenly gave the panic that I put the wrong thing out on the easel for tomorrow. And I was like, wait a minute. Is a monday is a Tuesday. Did I put Wednesday out? I put Thursday out. I don't know if it's the right thing.

01:45:18:14 - 01:45:32:23
Gabe
I'm sorry. I don't know how that came. Right. We're talking about jobs. The first thing we talked about was stressful. This is stressful. And then I was like, oh, my gosh, did I even perform my job? Right. I did.

01:45:33:00 - 01:45:37:03
Lauren
It. Sorry.

01:45:37:03 - 01:45:44:13
Gabe
I think yeah, I think we said all that we can say about a I and I've gone way over.

01:45:44:13 - 01:46:01:25
Lauren
Let know in the comments if we're wrong. We're not islands out but it's not. We're not thinking about. Tell us how AI's helped you in the past year, okay?

01:46:01:26 - 01:46:30:21
Gabe
I thought for you, we y you. Oh, boy. It's not Uncle Sam. So Uncle Sam poster, right? Yeah. Sorry. Anyways, I can't. I'm over it. I'm over. I, I feel like I. Never mind. I'm sorry. I was thinking about I went back to the beginning of the episode of what we were talking about and then I exposed myself.

01:46:30:21 - 01:46:54:27
Gabe
And then you put Wolf Girl from that one episode. And what you could put for maybe this or whatever. Anyways, if you have a devolper, gamer, side quest, you want to talk about or any level anonymous gossip, you simply must tell someone, let us know on Twitter at at no sidequests or emails that no question mlb.com. And if you'd like to see our all of the faces during the podcast, we post each episode with video our I don't believe in side quests youtube channel.

01:46:55:15 - 01:47:05:08
Gabe
You can find me at nenyaadamas, Twitter, Twitch, YouTube and Instagram and you can find Lauren at Sweetie_potat on Twitter Twitch and youtube. Peace out beeches

01:47:05:12 - 01:47:14:16
Lauren
Byeeee