Episode 19: Lara Croft

We chat Lara Croft's transformation over the years and why we love her.

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Transcript

00:00:10:00 - 00:00:18:26
Gabe
What's up, fellow Questers? Welcome back to another episode of I Don't Believe in Side Quests where we love to remind you that every side quests somebody else's main quest. I'm Gabe.

00:00:18:26 - 00:00:20:16
Lauren
I'm Lauren

00:00:20:16 - 00:00:24:00
Gabe
and lets do some catch up. Always been happy this week for us.

00:00:24:26 - 00:00:27:18
Lauren
It's been a long week. It's been a long week.

00:00:27:23 - 00:00:54:19
Lauren
So this was this is just after Memorial Day weekend for us. So we're both just exhausted, recovering. I know I was off in Montana at my best friend's wedding all weekend, so I am exhausted. I husband and I are both a little sniffle. We have some little coughs. We're hoping it's just allergies, but like, I don't know, because we were on flights.

00:00:54:19 - 00:00:59:16
Lauren
And. With people in Montana who are not vaccinated.

00:00:59:16 - 00:01:04:20
Lauren
So I don't know.

00:01:04:20 - 00:01:32:14
Lauren
Hopefully nothing crazy got into our system, but we're both heavily in recovery mode. But the wedding was a lot of fun. I hadn't met my friend's fiancee before, so this is my first time meeting him and so it was really nice and I just got to see her family who I haven't seen in a while. And our other good friend who was with us on The Bachelorette also joined.

00:01:32:14 - 00:02:00:24
Lauren
And so and we hadn't seen her husband in a while either. And so her husband and my husband got to go and bounce around together while my friend and I were off being bridesmaids and my maid of honor speech made the bride cry. So I did that. So all my duties, I felt successful, did it. And I cried during the rehearsal and when she came down the aisle.

00:02:00:24 - 00:02:11:26
Lauren
So I was just like, you know, this is just going to be okay. That's me and all the girls. And we're like, We're not going to cry. Like It's going to be fine. And then as soon as they saw my friend, they're like.

00:02:12:08 - 00:02:14:14
Gabe
Oh, it's true to.

00:02:14:14 - 00:02:28:24
Lauren
Feel so emotional. I was like, Yeah. And and they're all just stoic and Steph coming back down the aisle because they were like trying to not be, you know, crying and letting show their emotions. And they were like, No, anyway.

00:02:29:03 - 00:02:30:09
Lauren
It's okay to cry.

00:02:30:15 - 00:02:39:22
Lauren
I know. I was just like, You guys did so good. Yeah, you.

00:02:39:22 - 00:02:41:04
Gabe
Guys did so good.

00:02:41:06 - 00:02:45:11
Lauren
Mm hmm.

00:02:45:11 - 00:02:48:29
Gabe
It was.

00:02:48:29 - 00:02:49:24
Lauren
I didn't even know.

00:02:50:21 - 00:03:00:23
Gabe
It was a weekend. Was a weekend. I don't know. There's a battery exposure for our boatlift, and it just was a mess. A lot of things that.

00:03:00:23 - 00:03:01:25
Lauren
Could go wrong, going wrong.

00:03:02:08 - 00:03:15:18
Gabe
But it's exhausting also because it's just the end of the year, too. And we've been giving a lot ready for, you know, the kids and stuff to be done. And we had our program on Wednesday, so that was good. It went.

00:03:15:18 - 00:03:16:01
Lauren
Well.

00:03:16:23 - 00:03:19:18
Gabe
One on one kids.

00:03:19:18 - 00:03:21:04
Lauren
Mom forgot.

00:03:22:00 - 00:03:42:01
Gabe
And she had literally been there earlier that morning and one of their teachers like, Hey, are you excited for a program day and stuff? I'm like, So I had to. So we did the like program and then we have ice cream after and this poor girl was like, like when their dog approaches, like, where's my mom? You know, where's my mom or whatever?

00:03:42:01 - 00:03:56:21
Gabe
And I was like, It's okay, I'll help you find them so I can stay with her. And then I was like, Okay, well, maybe she's on at the ice cream waiting for us, you know, like, let's go check. And then I go online and sort of get icing on the cake. Okay, maybe we should just. I don't know.

00:03:57:05 - 00:03:57:20
Lauren
Yeah.

00:03:57:25 - 00:04:15:27
Gabe
And eventually I had to go take her out to parent pickup. And her mom was her mom is not usually like this, but she wasn't the first row for a parent pick out like the first row of the line. So we go out there and the little girl goes and she's like, Don't worry, Mom, I already had ice cream.

00:04:16:24 - 00:04:21:08
Gabe
And she was like, Did I miss something? Is this a special day?

00:04:21:26 - 00:04:27:03
Lauren
I was like, It's the program. It was the program day. Oh, no.

00:04:28:06 - 00:04:28:21
Gabe
And it.

00:04:29:01 - 00:04:30:08
Lauren
It just breaks my heart.

00:04:30:12 - 00:04:41:04
Gabe
Every since I've been there, every time there's one family. All right. To be fair, the Christmas one, unfortunately the girl's mom couldn't get out of helping.

00:04:42:07 - 00:04:42:17
Lauren
Was.

00:04:43:23 - 00:04:55:15
Gabe
One of the other daughters within the school's Christmas party like she had to go help. And it unfortunately, was at the same time. And like she didn't know when she signed up at the beginning of the year. And I was just like, That's.

00:04:55:15 - 00:04:56:27
Lauren
Super unfortunate, but.

00:04:57:14 - 00:04:59:09
Lauren
When is the last day of school, isn't it?

00:04:59:09 - 00:04:59:24
Lauren
Coming on.

00:05:00:20 - 00:05:02:10
Gabe
The Tuesday. That's Tuesday.

00:05:03:26 - 00:05:04:06
Lauren
Yeah. Yeah.

00:05:06:00 - 00:05:12:26
Lauren
Okay. Today is June 1st, which is Banana Dance.

00:05:12:27 - 00:05:14:23
Lauren
Yes, yes.

00:05:14:23 - 00:05:19:28
Gabe
Yeah. We're literally recording this the day after the first episode, Nancy Drew came out.

00:05:20:29 - 00:05:23:13
Lauren
And we haven't watched it. So I like have not been.

00:05:23:18 - 00:05:24:11
Lauren
I watched it.

00:05:25:16 - 00:05:38:02
Lauren
It's on the CW dot com so I can go and I'll probably watch it tonight. And I've been like not going on Twitter to not spoil it for myself.

00:05:38:20 - 00:05:40:06
Gabe
No, don't. Da da da da da da da.

00:05:40:07 - 00:05:40:24
Lauren
No, I know.

00:05:41:04 - 00:05:55:09
Gabe
Don't look at all because it's not like, you know how some episodes are just in general for any show or just kind of like whatever, you know what I mean? Like, I feel like this was a really important one. Like, it was a really good comeback. Sit. Don't look at anything at all.

00:05:55:09 - 00:06:02:02
Lauren
Yeah, I'll watch it right after we record this so that we can talk about it. Like, for.

00:06:02:03 - 00:06:02:17
Lauren
Tuesday.

00:06:02:19 - 00:06:02:29
Lauren
I'm so.

00:06:02:29 - 00:06:03:11
Lauren
Excited.

00:06:03:11 - 00:06:06:19
Gabe
Yeah. We don't even know what we're going to talk.

00:06:06:19 - 00:06:11:29
Lauren
About in four days. Even better.

00:06:11:29 - 00:06:30:11
Gabe
Living the best life. You know, it's fine. It's all okay. It's all okay. Okay. I feel like we have to get right into it. I because the the Lara Croft, the Tomb Raider, we just have to get right into it. There's no introduction. We're just getting right into it. And this is right here. Me out, sweetie. Okay. Right.

00:06:30:11 - 00:06:44:09
Gabe
I was originally scripting the episode and I was like, okay, we'll talk about it. Like the history. I was thinking about it in the Nancy Drew perspective right when we did. You remember when we did the deep analysis of the Nancy Drew. And I was like, okay, well, talk about the history of the character.

00:06:44:23 - 00:06:48:13
Lauren
And then, oh, my God, I spelt her name wrong for my first bullet point.

00:06:48:21 - 00:06:58:12
Gabe
Sorry, that really bothered me when I saw that. I know. And I was like, okay, then when you talk about the games, you talk about the movies, right? I was like, okay, we can.

00:06:58:12 - 00:06:59:03
Lauren
Section this up.

00:07:00:01 - 00:07:22:20
Gabe
And then I was filling this all out and I came across this thing that reminded me why I wanted to talk about Tomb Raider in the first place, like why I felt like this is something we should talk about. So I feel like when, when I brought this up, it seemed like I wanted to talk about just because we both love Tomb Raider and she's a female character.

00:07:23:17 - 00:07:26:03
Gabe
But the reason that I did is because.

00:07:27:23 - 00:07:35:14
Lauren
I told them, let me go back to the bullet point where I reminded myself of why this is really why I wanted to do it.

00:07:35:14 - 00:07:41:16
Gabe
Listen, my brain's a mess right now. So much information of Tomb Raider. I'm sorry. Just bear with me. I'm so.

00:07:41:16 - 00:07:42:00
Lauren
Excited.

00:07:43:00 - 00:07:43:27
Gabe
All right? Okay.

00:07:43:27 - 00:07:48:22
Lauren
So now this is whatever.

00:07:49:15 - 00:08:25:25
Gabe
The blueprint is. Lara Croft has become one of the most recognizable video game designers. Which is true to. Yeah, okay. And I said, which is why I thought this would be an interesting topic when you think about strong female protagonists are a game to represent women. I would dare to say it's Lara Croft or Tomb Raider, right? Like when you just hear strong female protagonists or female lead in a game series, I would argue our bias should be Nancy Drew, but I would counter that with the general population would say.

00:08:25:25 - 00:08:26:29
Gabe
Lara Croft Well.

00:08:26:29 - 00:08:44:24
Lauren
And I think when you say strong, like also you do think like Lara Croft is a very physical character, right? So when you think strong, tough, like, you know, G.I. Jane situations.

00:08:45:05 - 00:08:46:15
Lauren
Jane, I guess a.

00:08:48:07 - 00:09:04:12
Gabe
True very true. Right. And then I would say she's a very controversial is not the right word but there's like we'll get into that. We'll get into what? I mean, I can't.

00:09:04:12 - 00:09:05:26
Lauren
I can only say so much at one time.

00:09:05:26 - 00:09:46:06
Gabe
Okay. So because what I want to do is discuss Lara Croft, not just talk about her. Okay? So bear with me. What I saw as I was writing this out is I wrote down kind of it's like a page and a half, like a yeah, page and a half page and a quarter of like what Lara Croft is kind of the overall all the history and so I would ask that you bear with me to just info dump for a second so that we can really get a discussion about it because I know you're not as familiar with the game or early games, sir, unlike the early franchise as I am so I and who

00:09:46:06 - 00:09:56:25
Gabe
knows if everyone listening is right. So I kind of wanted to touch point on things and I feel like it will build a good foundation to have what I think is important to discuss.

00:09:56:25 - 00:09:58:17
Lauren
But Tomb Raider.

00:09:58:17 - 00:10:33:05
Gabe
Okay, so I feel like this is pretty common knowledge, but Lara is, you know, an archeologist adventurer and she travels around the world searching for forgotten artifacts in locations which I don't remember. If this is true, I feel like this is true. In the beginning there it's usually connected to some supernatural power. I think we see that. I don't know anyways, but she also obviously does a lot of infiltrating of dangerous tombs and ruins.

00:10:33:05 - 00:11:00:06
Gabe
I would say the thing that always kind of remains the same through the games, through the movies or all of it, is that her origins are she's the only daughter and heir of the aristocratic Croft family. And if you had to pull out, usually I think the traits of her personality, they keep pretty consistent. She's usually portrayed as intelligent, athletic, elegant.

00:11:00:06 - 00:11:17:04
Gabe
She's typically fluent in multiple languages, which I feel like one would hope that if she's, you know, looking at all these different things, um, I wrote down and determined to fulfill her own goals at any cost. I'm not so sure how I feel.

00:11:17:04 - 00:11:18:13
Lauren
About that one.

00:11:19:22 - 00:11:31:17
Gabe
I, I think that really depends. So I might scratch. I'm not going to say that's. Yes, but yeah, she's an aristocratic, filthy, rich, highly educated, adventurous man.

00:11:31:17 - 00:11:46:22
Lauren
It's like she's willing to, like, put her life and resources in peril in order to achieve what she's trying to do versus like any like other people, safety and whatever any cost.

00:11:47:28 - 00:12:19:28
Gabe
Part of me is like, I'm not sure if I am biased now from the new trilogy because that's what I've most recently played. And that Laura class, I would argue, doesn't at any cost. I feel like she still has a sense of morality, you know, and thinking about I don't think she thinks what's so weird, you know, the like that the means justify the end is what it was that when she.

00:12:20:08 - 00:12:21:05
Lauren
By the means.

00:12:21:05 - 00:12:26:02
Gabe
Ends justifying the means. Yes. Right. I don't think she's that sorry.

00:12:26:02 - 00:12:26:25
Lauren
So insurmountable.

00:12:27:19 - 00:12:28:04
Gabe
Okay.

00:12:29:01 - 00:12:29:26
Lauren
Um.

00:12:30:20 - 00:12:46:15
Gabe
Commonly here, all of the games gameplay generally focuses on, you know, exploration of environments, solving puzzles, navigating hostile environments filled with traps and fighting enemies. The new trilogy was unique, though, in that it had the open world.

00:12:46:27 - 00:12:51:28
Lauren
Mm hmm.

00:12:51:28 - 00:13:00:29
Gabe
Exploration versus a more kind of, like, linear level thing.

00:13:02:01 - 00:13:02:26
Lauren
Um.

00:13:03:09 - 00:13:24:18
Gabe
So on top of the games, there's also been an arcade made of it. Obviously, the film Adaptions comics and novels. And then while I was researching this, I did see supposedly Amazon is working on a TV show adaption of the video game franchise, and it's also reported to involve a tie in video game and moving interactive connected universe.

00:13:24:27 - 00:13:27:29
Gabe
I saw you wrote a bullet point about it down below. Is there something.

00:13:27:29 - 00:13:29:11
Lauren
You want to add to that?

00:13:29:15 - 00:14:01:08
Lauren
Yeah. So Phoebe Waller-Bridge, who, if you don't know, wrote and starred in Fleabag, which is a very funny British show. So she has there's been a lot talking about her because she has a contract with Amazon for many millions of dollars. And as of yet, we have not seen anything that she's created come out of Amazon servants like Hi.

00:14:01:22 - 00:14:34:12
Lauren
Amazon paid her a whole bunch of money to create things. Where are they anyway? So in January there was an article that came out from The Hollywood Reporter talking about how she was executive producing and writing a TV show for Amazon Prime about of Tomb Raider. And so they don't she's not going to star in it. And I don't know.

00:14:34:12 - 00:15:09:07
Lauren
Amazon wasn't really responding to what The Hollywood Reporter was requesting them to comment on. So there's not really a lot of information about it other than just it's happening, which I think is really interesting. I mean, I think it's not unusual for Amazon to keep stuff like that kind of close to their chest, their chests. And I do think it's interesting that they kind of like leaked it and then were like, no, no, no, no more information for you.

00:15:09:07 - 00:15:28:03
Gabe
That feels very much like how The Legend of Zelda, Tears of the Kingdom was like. There's so little about it. And so I don't know. But with Amazon, I honestly and how their show productions go, I feel like we're not going to see the Tomb Raider.

00:15:28:03 - 00:15:29:17
Lauren
Series until like 2026.

00:15:29:27 - 00:15:53:16
Lauren
Right. And all the other articles that I see are all like, this is happening according to The Hollywood Reporter. So I don't know how the Hollywood Reporter discovered this. There's another article from so that was from January. There's another article in April saying.

00:15:53:16 - 00:15:56:22
Lauren
That, um.

00:15:57:27 - 00:16:22:21
Lauren
They're still looking for showrunners to oversee it. So Phoebe Waller-Bridge is executive producing and writing, but they don't have a showrunner. And now of course there's the writers strike going on. So Oh yeah. So they Amazon in 2019 signed Phoebe Waller-Bridge to a three year 200 I'm.

00:16:23:02 - 00:16:24:01
Lauren
Sorry.

00:16:24:01 - 00:16:57:15
Lauren
Three year $20 million deal. And as of yet, everything that's kind of been like in the plans has kind of fallen by the wayside. So. Hmm, we shall see. She's allegedly developing other things as well, but they're at least in April, they were looking for a showrunner and some other kind of lead pieces. So early days.

00:16:59:04 - 00:17:17:02
Gabe
I was just going to say, to be fair, they I feel like the first inklings that Amazon was going to take on the Lord of the Rings show, which ended up being rings of power, it was like years before we ever actually saw, like before the show came out.

00:17:17:02 - 00:17:17:29
Lauren
So go ahead.

00:17:18:09 - 00:17:39:14
Lauren
So later on in the article, it says, in addition to Waller-Bridge's series, this is from this is from pop culture, in addition to Waller-Bridge's series, there would be a film. Both would tie in to a new Lara Croft video game that Amazon will publish as part of a deal with Crystal Dynamics.

00:17:41:01 - 00:17:47:01
Lauren
Yes, that's what I said. But not with who. But yes, this year.

00:17:48:08 - 00:18:01:15
Gabe
Yes, it's a TV show adaption of video game franchise, which is also reported to involve a tie in video game and movie in an Internet connected universe. That's okay. I didn't know who. I didn't get that.

00:18:01:15 - 00:18:04:20
Lauren
Deep into it. So I'd vote yes.

00:18:05:02 - 00:18:12:01
Lauren
I thought you said Italian. Not a tie in. I think I was just confused by whatever is going on there.

00:18:12:27 - 00:18:13:11
Lauren
That's fine.

00:18:13:17 - 00:18:15:27
Lauren
That's very. Anyway.

00:18:15:27 - 00:18:19:06
Gabe
No, that's fine. That's interesting. And I like with like who the developer would.

00:18:19:06 - 00:18:19:13
Lauren
Be.

00:18:19:17 - 00:18:27:22
Lauren
Or and legendary entertainment apparently had planned an anime series of Tomb Raider in 2021, but that is not complete.

00:18:27:22 - 00:18:28:04
Gabe
That would be.

00:18:28:04 - 00:18:29:12
Lauren
Fascinating.

00:18:29:29 - 00:18:40:05
Gabe
Like there's just that there's been so many different medias of Tomb Raider. Like, why not have the anime equivalent?

00:18:40:18 - 00:18:42:18
Lauren
You know, everyone loves a franchise.

00:18:42:25 - 00:18:45:07
Gabe
Yes, that's interesting.

00:18:45:07 - 00:18:46:03
Lauren
I didn't know all that.

00:18:46:03 - 00:18:49:28
Gabe
So I'm glad you found that.

00:18:49:28 - 00:18:50:15
Lauren
Um.

00:18:51:14 - 00:19:00:16
Gabe
Okay. Where it all started, development of the original Tomb Raider game began in 1944, which then released in 1996.

00:19:01:16 - 00:19:03:26
Lauren
Oh nine. Sorry, 1994.

00:19:04:23 - 00:19:05:22
Lauren
Yeah, perfect.

00:19:06:20 - 00:19:07:23
Gabe
What did you think I said?

00:19:07:29 - 00:19:11:08
Lauren
1944. It's like, excuse me.

00:19:11:29 - 00:19:18:04
Gabe
Not 1994 and then released in 1996. I have this later on, but I, I want to.

00:19:18:04 - 00:19:20:17
Lauren
Bring this up right now.

00:19:20:17 - 00:19:46:16
Gabe
But the shoes are supposed to be a man. She wasn't even Laura Croft, which I think is right. This took two years, right? From 1984 to 1996 was that she was supposed to be a man, but they were worried that it would be seen as like a too much like Indiana Jones. You know what I mean? Like they're trying to copy Indiana Jones or something like that.

00:19:46:16 - 00:20:00:07
Lauren
Yeah, I think there definitely is some sort of perception of her being kind of the female Indy in many ways. I think both too.

00:20:00:07 - 00:20:09:23
Gabe
Yeah, I suppose I agree with that. Yeah. I feel like at least I should like when Uncharted I think Uncharted was after.

00:20:10:15 - 00:20:13:18
Lauren
Tomb Raider.

00:20:13:18 - 00:20:29:18
Gabe
But usually when they compare to the game, in a sense, they always compare her like Peter against Nathan Drake. Right. You have the Tomb Raider for like the rest of the world. And then Uncharted is not as specific, I think, or something like that.

00:20:29:21 - 00:20:30:04
Lauren
Mm hmm.

00:20:30:22 - 00:20:42:00
Gabe
Anyways, I thought that was interesting. So that's why. That's why she even became a woman to begin with, as they were like, Yo, oh, wait, you have your cursor on it or I have my.

00:20:42:00 - 00:20:42:24
Lauren
Cursor on it.

00:20:43:15 - 00:20:46:02
Gabe
Yeah, it would be seen as a derivative of Indiana Jones.

00:20:46:02 - 00:20:49:08
Lauren
So change the gender.

00:20:49:08 - 00:21:12:27
Gabe
Okay. So it was so successful. They began developing a new game annually for the next four years. And I, I know I made a comment because this made me think about when Nancy Jr is pumping out two games a year and just like but then this is even more complex than no faster Nancy Drew game. Oh, yeah. And I was like, Holy cow.

00:21:12:27 - 00:21:31:29
Gabe
And so I was not surprised when they were like, Yeah, this causes a lot of strain on staffs of then by the six games there are difficulties during development. Um, I think it was actually the fifth game that flopped on release. So I guess I think it was the fifth and not the sixth game that there are difficulties.

00:21:32:17 - 00:21:55:02
Gabe
And yeah, so because of that they switched to Crystal Dynamics and that's been the series primary developer since apparently the developers tried to kill the character off of like when the staff was like tired of my dear were like, we don't want to do this anymore. They're like, All right, what if we just, like, killed the character off?

00:21:55:02 - 00:21:57:01
Gabe
Why, that didn't have their word.

00:21:57:01 - 00:21:59:16
Lauren
Or I'll.

00:22:01:20 - 00:22:03:16
Lauren
True. True.

00:22:05:03 - 00:22:11:07
Lauren
I'm tired of this. Let's have him just die.

00:22:11:07 - 00:22:35:00
Gabe
I mean. Yeah, because of this, the main characters. So, like, yikes. But yeah. Anyway, sorry. Not true. It didn't work. Why? It didn't work? I don't know. Glad it didn't work. There's also been other developers who contributed to spinoff titles. I also think this is a type of sold over 90. Okay, not this part. Sold over 95 million copies worldwide by 2022.

00:22:35:13 - 00:22:48:16
Gabe
K I can't believe that it's this part where I think this is meant to be 2022. The whole franchises generate close to 1.2 billion in revenue. By there's no way I was 22, I'm going to guess there's 2022. So either I miss typed or.

00:22:48:16 - 00:22:51:03
Lauren
I don't know, probably.

00:22:51:04 - 00:22:59:08
Gabe
Okay. And then something that I think we really clearly need to address, if you'd like to scroll down to the pictures while I talk about this.

00:22:59:14 - 00:23:02:12
Lauren
Okay.

00:23:02:12 - 00:23:32:09
Gabe
The lower the evolution of Laura visually so how she started, I think you call them just booty shorts. But I wanted to say short booty shorts. I was about tank top, combat boots, backpack. And then I think I think she's meant to have technically a utility belt in this. And then the the harnesses are holsters on her thighs with twin pistols.

00:23:33:04 - 00:23:37:05
Lauren
Okay, so let's get shorter.

00:23:37:05 - 00:23:37:24
Gabe
Oh, yeah.

00:23:38:09 - 00:23:38:26
Lauren
Yes.

00:23:38:26 - 00:24:10:21
Gabe
I didn't necessarily part what part of it is. I don't even think it's that they necessarily get shorter as the anatomy improves. You know what I mean? Like, I don't think these initial ones are meant to actually be high waisted booty shorts. That's just kind of how they are because that's what they were capable of. But I don't know that the gap between the shorts and the holster is why I feel like although that middle one.

00:24:10:21 - 00:24:13:15
Lauren
Definitely got shorter, that one definitely was more like.

00:24:13:16 - 00:24:14:20
Lauren
The brown shorts.

00:24:14:24 - 00:24:16:25
Gabe
Spandex. Yeah.

00:24:17:19 - 00:24:18:02
Lauren
Yes.

00:24:18:26 - 00:24:35:21
Gabe
Um, right. So halfway through, I size the shorts getting shorter, the tank top starts to become more of like crop top energy. And I'm like, okay, midriff. Hello there. Welcome to the 21st century.

00:24:35:21 - 00:24:36:07
Lauren
Just kidding.

00:24:37:07 - 00:24:49:10
Gabe
And so then I think the big ones are really not those in the current trilogy. She's got pants and a tank top, and I think it's very more clear that she.

00:24:49:10 - 00:24:52:15
Lauren
Has a utility belt like it acts more like a.

00:24:52:23 - 00:25:01:18
Gabe
Utility belt than any of the others because she has more on it than just, you know, I don't know. That was I.

00:25:01:20 - 00:25:02:12
Lauren
Thought I'd argue.

00:25:02:27 - 00:25:35:07
Gabe
And then oh my God bless this. Okay. So the big thing that's pretty unanimous is she always has some form of braid or ponytail and she always says brown eyes and brown hair, not sure technically why her skin tone is supposed to be. I mean, she's British, so they probably were originally going for like more white in the original ones, but like, want to show her tan, you know, because she's out adventuring and stuff but like not trying to be racist.

00:25:35:07 - 00:25:43:15
Gabe
But I feel like if we're saying she's a typical British, right, she would be white, I think I don't know.

00:25:44:04 - 00:25:45:13
Lauren
Regardless, not important.

00:25:45:27 - 00:26:00:16
Lauren
Based on the later games. So they show her parents her parents both like pretty white. So at least in the Yes later trilogy, that is the intention.

00:26:01:13 - 00:26:02:03
Lauren
This was.

00:26:02:03 - 00:26:16:03
Gabe
Something I thought was interesting that I've never thought about, but I think that was kind of unique to Laura at the time was she could swim through water and kind of around that time period that was like a rarity in games for a character to be able to do.

00:26:16:03 - 00:26:16:15
Lauren
That.

00:26:16:23 - 00:26:34:02
Lauren
Interesting. It's I know, yeah, it's interesting to think about that because then there are so many games nowadays where swimming is commonplace. Commonplace is very important.

00:26:34:02 - 00:26:38:08
Gabe
These are made out of because, you know, we want to hype I want to hype.

00:26:38:08 - 00:26:38:27
Lauren
This Lady.

00:26:39:10 - 00:27:06:23
Gabe
Tomb Raider tour. And the 2013 reboot had the biggest sales. Tomb Raider two had, I think it was like one and a half million, which in my opinion is probably pretty big back then. The second one probably came out in 1999 or eight or something like that. So yeah, kudos to them. The 2013 was, I think over 11 million, which is pretty crazy in my opinion.

00:27:07:06 - 00:27:19:18
Gabe
And then the first comic book was the best selling comic book of 1999. The 2001 film adaption had the biggest opening weekend for an action film with a female lead since Aliens in 1986.

00:27:19:18 - 00:27:23:03
Lauren
And that was the Angelina Jolie one.

00:27:23:03 - 00:27:23:26
Gabe
I believe so.

00:27:24:11 - 00:27:25:12
Lauren
Yes, I think so.

00:27:26:12 - 00:27:30:01
Gabe
I think there's only ever been to Tomb Raider.

00:27:30:01 - 00:27:33:00
Lauren
Actresses or has there been three?

00:27:33:16 - 00:27:44:09
Lauren
So there was Angelina and then there is the ones that came out in 2018.

00:27:45:07 - 00:27:46:14
Gabe
Right? That's what I thought.

00:27:47:01 - 00:27:49:24
Lauren
Okay. Alicia Vikander.

00:27:49:24 - 00:27:51:28
Lauren
Yeah, yeah, that sounds right.

00:27:52:15 - 00:28:09:26
Gabe
I made a note of this because I kind of agree with that to an extent. Some have cited the series as a pioneer in the medium, both laying the foundations for and popularizing an action adventure and platforming games. Can you look up? When Uncharted was originally made?

00:28:10:17 - 00:28:15:06
Lauren
The franchise's first game, Uncharted Drake's Fortune, was released in 2007.

00:28:16:09 - 00:28:18:22
Gabe
Okay, that's what I saw. I feel like there's people try to.

00:28:18:22 - 00:28:19:19
Lauren
Act like.

00:28:20:23 - 00:28:24:27
Gabe
Uncharted came first and like, sure, you can say compared to the new trilogy it.

00:28:24:27 - 00:28:25:05
Lauren
Did.

00:28:25:05 - 00:28:37:25
Gabe
But the new trilogy definitely took the building blocks of everything else before it. So anyways, I'm not sure if I need to put this in the history, but I kind of want to make.

00:28:38:13 - 00:28:38:27
Lauren
Note.

00:28:38:27 - 00:29:05:00
Gabe
Of it. Obviously, Laura's sex appeal was the main draw for early fans and this is a facet you know, exploit it for marketing and attempted to emulate in other products something her population from player with from player empathy with her ability to survive tough situations alongside it. Okay this part I don't agree with alongside contrasting against weaker female characters such as Princess Peach.

00:29:05:14 - 00:29:23:26
Gabe
I don't I have to say that I don't think Princess Peaches, are we a weak character? She just I mean, she's a product of what they created. I feel like she doesn't necessarily have a weak or strength. She's just kind of there for.

00:29:24:05 - 00:29:25:01
Lauren
Mario.

00:29:25:06 - 00:29:34:00
Gabe
Tbh. I feel like she's not even a character and not because I'm trying to be mean. I have nothing against her. It's speech. I love her, but just like.

00:29:34:22 - 00:29:36:23
Lauren
She gets kidnaped until she gets rescued.

00:29:36:23 - 00:29:49:11
Gabe
And that's yes, she does not a recently they've tried to give her anything more than that, to be honest, in my personal opinion. So I feel like she's a.

00:29:49:11 - 00:29:52:00
Lauren
Contrast have.

00:29:52:13 - 00:29:53:06
Gabe
I think it's.

00:29:54:00 - 00:29:54:19
Lauren
Right as.

00:29:54:19 - 00:30:09:10
Lauren
Opposed to and not necessarily like physically weaker, stronger or whatever but just as a depth of character. Like we don't write a lot about Princess Peach and she doesn't do a lot and.

00:30:09:16 - 00:30:10:03
Gabe
She's just like.

00:30:10:03 - 00:30:11:18
Lauren
A proverb, bless her.

00:30:12:26 - 00:30:14:14
Gabe
Okay. And then this is the last.

00:30:14:17 - 00:30:17:11
Lauren
Important part of some part.

00:30:17:11 - 00:30:57:18
Gabe
Laura. Laura's both hailed as an empowering figure for women and a negative role model due to her hypersexualized and unrealistic appear prince. And this all just screams Barbie to me. You can see I wrote Barbie of like I feel like that's how a lot of people feel about Barbie. The big thing that, like, gets me about Laura and I feel like this is really important to discuss is that I feel like it touches on how oversexualized women are and how like in gaming for a female character.

00:30:59:12 - 00:31:00:05
Lauren
To.

00:31:02:08 - 00:31:28:06
Gabe
Succeed, they have to be seen as sexy, which is so sad to me. It is so sad. And, and this was such an interesting question to me. Someone had had said was bosses. Okay, Laura sprung from the mind of a patriarch.

00:31:28:06 - 00:31:28:15
Lauren
Right.

00:31:28:26 - 00:31:59:05
Gabe
Can she still be a feminist icon? So for you, answer what you think of that. This was something awesome. Someone said that I did I did agree with which is so sad to me. The sex appeal stuff, right? Her sex appeal is what made her one of gaming's most groundbreaking characters. And if she had been less sexy, she arguably couldn't have gotten away with being the lead of a video game franchise.

00:31:59:22 - 00:32:09:18
Gabe
And, you know, there's not many games with an exclusively female playable character. Usually if there's a female characters that you can choose to be a male or choose.

00:32:09:18 - 00:32:17:00
Lauren
To be a female. All right. Hit me with your thoughts.

00:32:17:00 - 00:32:34:20
Lauren
So I think there is space for characters, individuals, whatever to start out one way and transform.

00:32:35:23 - 00:32:36:19
Lauren
And.

00:32:36:19 - 00:33:30:18
Lauren
Become something new. Like I feel like the maybe original Lara Croft and then this new trilogy, new look in the last ten years, whatever this new trilogy, it is the same basic character, like the basic characteristics of fandom. There's so many fundamental differences like Lara's Younger. Lara's has all of these feelings. She's actual, real person and not simply just like a hottie on the screen who you can control, like, so I feel like because of what, what has and can be done with the character, just like with Barbie, she can be whoever you want her to be.

00:33:30:28 - 00:33:57:15
Lauren
You can consume the pieces of media that are her in a way that you like. And people can consume areas of media in which she is like super sexy and ridiculous if that's how they want to view the character. Ultimately, she's a character like she's not a real person who were, you know, having to say, well, was she actually a good person?

00:33:57:15 - 00:34:06:27
Lauren
I don't know. Like, what was the purpose of her? Like, she's a character so we can mess around with her all that she wants.

00:34:06:27 - 00:34:17:03
Gabe
I think this was made for the original Tomb Raider too, but there are user made game patches with titles like Nude Raider, which were made solely for the purpose of removing her clothes.

00:34:17:03 - 00:34:18:23
Lauren
To reveal her pixilated body.

00:34:20:10 - 00:34:23:28
Gabe
Which, if that's actually true, I don't know if that was for the I don't think you could do that.

00:34:23:28 - 00:34:25:03
Lauren
Necessarily for the first.

00:34:26:00 - 00:34:28:20
Gabe
Game. So it probably would have been later stuff.

00:34:30:02 - 00:34:56:20
Lauren
I will just I will also say that there is definitely a I don't know if it's like market, but there's definitely a strategy of if you want to get your name or whatever out there, think like Lady Gaga. Like Lady Gaga. She was just like, I have a great voice. I can either go out and just have my great voice or I can say, You know what, I'm going to be wild.

00:34:56:20 - 00:35:24:19
Lauren
I'm going to be crazy. I'm going to be wearing all these kooky outfits. No one's going to know what to expect from me. And now that that's happened, now she can kind of shed some of that kookiness and just let her voice shine because she made the impact. And so for to have a female led action game, who are you marketing this towards at the time you're marketing to primarily men?

00:35:24:20 - 00:35:37:15
Lauren
How are you going to get men to download your game and want to play as a female lead? She's going to be hot. Okay, now if that's you have to, like, get her out there. Fine.

00:35:37:24 - 00:36:11:07
Gabe
Well, that's what the critics of the Times said, too. They're just like she's designed as an adolescent, male fantasy chess choices. Writers are ways and all that. You're like, true. And then because you brought up this point, too, which I thought it was funny, I saw in 2000, the video is crediting Laura with her originating the concept of the cyber babe or just the of the hyper unrealistic female game character who served as a repository for male fantasies.

00:36:11:07 - 00:36:11:27
Lauren
Oh, God.

00:36:12:09 - 00:36:56:09
Lauren
So like, on the one hand, yes, she's not a person. So if somebody wants to see her naked, okay, act like she's not human. So I in some ways, I'm like, it doesn't that's fine. You can go and do that if they want to do it, whatever, it's pixels on a screen. It doesn't matter, right? It only matters if they then act in a way towards her that they and and then if they feel empowered to act inappropriately towards human because they're like, well, I can do it to my little girlfriend or what?

00:36:56:11 - 00:37:46:15
Lauren
Like I think if you either are young enough or are, you know, don't have the social whatever and translate any sort of like abusive or controlling or whatever behavior that you have to an onscreen character. If you translate that into your real life and try to treat a human woman inappropriately or badly, that's what I care about. I kind of don't care what you do with the characters in video games, as long as you can separate that out from real human beings and say, whoop, all right, well, I'm not going to do that now.

00:37:46:15 - 00:37:57:07
Lauren
There are definitely lots of people out there who are like, I wouldn't do it to a human being. I'm not going to do it to this character because, you know, like, I just have that respect level.

00:37:58:23 - 00:38:07:29
Gabe
That's me, you know? How are you talking about my stuffed animal issues, that my stuffed animals are, like, real to me?

00:38:08:06 - 00:38:08:26
Lauren
Mm hmm.

00:38:09:14 - 00:38:37:06
Gabe
I'm really bad about that. There are a lot of things that like conceptually. Yes, I know and understand they're not real, but they feel real to me. They feel real enough that my mindset of, well, would I like it if someone did this to me, the answer's no. Then I'm not going to do it right. And like characters is something that feels real.

00:38:37:06 - 00:38:37:29
Gabe
Not to me.

00:38:37:29 - 00:38:40:10
Lauren
Where it bothers me.

00:38:40:25 - 00:38:42:16
Gabe
Like I agree with you that.

00:38:42:16 - 00:38:44:04
Lauren
I'm never mean in my sense.

00:38:45:13 - 00:38:45:27
Gabe
Yeah.

00:38:46:13 - 00:39:11:10
Lauren
I think I say that. I never I never try to like actively ruin my sims lives. I will work them to the bone and be like, No, go to this thing, learn this thing. Be better at this thing. I want you at the apex of your mental and physical health. So like are don't care. But I want, I want them to be very successful at everything they do.

00:39:11:17 - 00:39:15:22
Lauren
You know, I'm not trapping them in a pool and letting them drown. So. Yeah, so I think.

00:39:16:21 - 00:39:23:21
Lauren
My sister did something like that. Did she? Yes.

00:39:23:21 - 00:39:51:10
Lauren
I think it's an interesting empathy test of like, do you have this? And they do that with kids, right. You know, where they'll be like, oh, here's this thing that looks kind of like a human. What do you do? Like, I think understanding how people treat humanoid objects and how and if they do treat them differently than they do like actual humans.

00:39:52:09 - 00:39:52:19
Lauren
Mm hmm.

00:39:53:04 - 00:40:17:21
Lauren
What? I want to date or spend a lot of time with somebody who I knew, murdered or otherwise acted really, really badly towards all of their video game characters. I don't know, because I think that does show that they have those impulses. Am I glad they're not doing it on actual humans? Yes, absolutely. But they're there and they have an outlet for it.

00:40:17:21 - 00:40:38:20
Lauren
So it's whether it's a healthy outlet and it's getting it out of their system or they're getting to experiment and saying, look, yeah, maybe not for me. Or if they're saying, yes, this is building up, and then at some point I'm going to lose the distinction between virtual and real, and then I'm going to go off somewhere weird.

00:40:40:05 - 00:40:54:07
Gabe
It gives me the vibes of of kids, like tearing legs off of spiders and the spiders just or other things too. Like for helpful burnings.

00:40:54:23 - 00:40:55:06
Lauren
Yeah.

00:40:55:17 - 00:41:13:28
Gabe
Yeah. And not, not in the sense that we're like they'll talk about how that led to then torturing different animals to then be killed. But just in general, there's people who don't become killers and stuff the like. They did that as kids or even sometimes adults to bugs where they just like terrorize these things.

00:41:13:28 - 00:41:14:13
Lauren
I'm like.

00:41:16:14 - 00:41:18:09
Gabe
For, like for why that's.

00:41:18:09 - 00:41:19:01
Lauren
Sick.

00:41:19:08 - 00:41:21:12
Lauren
So yeah.

00:41:21:21 - 00:41:22:21
Gabe
And that's so sad.

00:41:23:06 - 00:41:27:22
Lauren
It's, it's definitely telling.

00:41:27:22 - 00:41:42:11
Gabe
Yeah. Because even though, you know, bug doesn't have feelings, it feels pain, you know, and, and fear and the sense of survival instinct and like, just why would you.

00:41:43:08 - 00:41:45:12
Lauren
Want to cause it to another creature.

00:41:45:12 - 00:41:45:24
Lauren
Right?

00:41:46:09 - 00:42:12:09
Gabe
Oh, yeah. This was something that I thought was interesting to. And one sense, there's an extraordinary example of female empowerment. It was rare enough that she helmed a franchise in which players can only play as a woman. But the franchise itself is also worldwide best sold bestselling cultural phenomena. Like she literally took over the world for better, for better or for worse.

00:42:13:06 - 00:42:45:10
Lauren
So and I agree that if she had not I mean, obviously in this day and age, yes, she could have come out as in a fully clothed, a real functioning person as opposed to, you know, the very picky, silly skimpy outfit, just hot girl running around tombs that she started out as.

00:42:46:08 - 00:42:46:17
Lauren
Mm.

00:42:46:27 - 00:43:15:16
Lauren
But yeah, I mean I not to talk about ends justify the means that we were talking about earlier but yes if that's what was needed to give her to us and now we can take her on and, and change her and update her and give her a real voice. I'm happy. Right.

00:43:16:26 - 00:43:17:07
Lauren
Right.

00:43:18:04 - 00:43:20:24
Gabe
I two responses I just realized when you said that.

00:43:22:10 - 00:43:25:05
Lauren
Oh my God. And I forget what I just thought of.

00:43:25:05 - 00:43:27:26
Gabe
Okay, well, the first one was you're talking.

00:43:27:26 - 00:43:28:11
Lauren
About.

00:43:29:21 - 00:43:35:24
Gabe
You were talking about earlier with the male gamers when I brought up the new traitor and this was the bullpen.

00:43:35:25 - 00:43:38:19
Lauren
I'd been looking for that that.

00:43:38:19 - 00:44:02:27
Gabe
Made me think of despite her character traits, she was still seen primarily as a sexual object and disturbingly, oh yeah. This is something that critics said as a power fantasy for male gamers who enjoyed having direct control over her. And I was, Oh, this is what I thought of. And you're saying on it escalated from the patches to in real life.

00:44:02:27 - 00:44:04:11
Gabe
Right. And just.

00:44:04:11 - 00:44:10:02
Lauren
Like.

00:44:10:02 - 00:44:32:27
Gabe
Oh, okay, I don't want to miss the but I feel like a big thing just for abusers in general is, is having that direct control and controlling everything about your life. And it's just like I'm not.

00:44:34:23 - 00:44:36:04
Lauren
I don't know, I don't.

00:44:36:04 - 00:44:51:00
Gabe
Want to think of gaming as gateways to things because I think that's not necessarily true. But it's you know what I mean? We're like, what if it's something that sparks something within someone that they're like, Well, why? If I can do it.

00:44:51:00 - 00:44:55:06
Lauren
Like this, why can't I do it in real life?

00:44:55:15 - 00:44:55:26
Gabe
I don't know.

00:44:56:06 - 00:44:58:28
Lauren
It's just made me think of that.

00:44:58:28 - 00:45:19:10
Lauren
Yeah, well, and again, like, if you and I are playing the game and we're saying, okay, we're playing a game, we got her going, we're going to have her go do this thing. We're going to have it. You know, if we're not, I just feel like it's a mentality that either you have right don't where it's.

00:45:19:11 - 00:45:19:26
Gabe
Exactly.

00:45:19:26 - 00:45:26:19
Lauren
Like playing it in there like I'm playing a video game and controlling a person are like.

00:45:27:06 - 00:45:49:21
Gabe
It's I see more of like I feel like there's a mentality of like you are the character or it's you're controlling the character or at least that's kind of how I think when I listen to people talk about it, right, is there's the people who when they play a game, you know, they take on the character is like, you know, they are that avatar.

00:45:49:25 - 00:45:53:07
Gabe
Yeah, whatever it is. And that's how they're going to.

00:45:54:03 - 00:45:57:18
Lauren
Play, you know what I mean?

00:45:57:18 - 00:46:28:05
Gabe
I remember what my other thing was as we were talking about how we could reshape it with and you're referencing the new trilogy and I forgot to look this up because I was talking about, you know, Laura's is a product of the patriarch, right? And it was like she was made by a man, I guess. I don't know if it was all of her games, because I don't know about the new trilogy, but at least the ones before that were made by mostly men teams.

00:46:28:05 - 00:46:36:20
Gabe
So now I'm interested in that is the new trilogy. Go ahead. Is it a female?

00:46:37:08 - 00:46:44:11
Lauren
Well, it's that female writer. Remember, we talked about her on one of our spotlights.

00:46:44:11 - 00:46:44:21
Gabe
Yeah.

00:46:46:22 - 00:46:50:07
Lauren
So I don't I don't know about the rest of the team, but.

00:46:50:26 - 00:47:16:16
Gabe
My thought more is like, how much did the female voice actually influence the new trilogy? And if it if it wasn't, I don't think it has to be mostly female, but if like if it's mostly male, is it really us taking more craft.

00:47:16:16 - 00:47:16:25
Lauren
And.

00:47:20:19 - 00:47:22:06
Gabe
Reshaping her for.

00:47:23:08 - 00:47:26:06
Lauren
Us or. I don't know what the answer is, but.

00:47:26:06 - 00:47:26:18
Gabe
You know what I.

00:47:26:18 - 00:47:26:25
Lauren
Mean?

00:47:27:16 - 00:47:30:00
Lauren
And yes. Rhianna Pratchett.

00:47:31:09 - 00:47:31:21
Gabe
Right.

00:47:31:22 - 00:47:58:08
Lauren
Terry Pratchett, Sir Terry Pratchett's daughter, was the lead writer for Tomb Raider and then Rise of the Tomb Raider. She also wrote the comic Tomb Raider The Beginning. And so she was heavily, heavily involved in the character work. And again, the writing and the story of the new Tomb Raider series.

00:47:58:08 - 00:48:34:27
Gabe
I just like to say I actually like both versions of Laura, and that's because like, I like wearing not a lot of clothing. And it's not because I like to show my body off, but it's a sensory thing. And clothing bothers me a lot. And there's a lot of times like, like in the house or I'm as a naked as I can be and it's not because I necessarily want to be or I'm like a nudist or something, but just like it just feels better.

00:48:34:27 - 00:48:57:13
Gabe
It feels most comfortable. I've said this, if I, if I was socially acceptable for me to only wear a swimsuit, I, I would do it because that's when I feel the best and I don't want to. My arms and legs aren't like constrained and fabric and stuff. And so like, I look at her and I'm like, Dude, Laura, that's what I would be wearing.

00:48:57:13 - 00:49:05:11
Gabe
Doing what you do because it's hot is dank. You're work in your booty off and I sweat like a pig.

00:49:05:11 - 00:49:05:20
Lauren
Like.

00:49:06:06 - 00:49:10:19
Gabe
That would be me. Yeah. And yes, exactly. There's so much.

00:49:10:19 - 00:49:10:28
Lauren
Stuff.

00:49:10:28 - 00:49:27:14
Lauren
Right. And shit like that. Bad ass. I mean, at the basic level, like, cool. That's why tons of girls dress up as her for Halloween. That's why they had Angelina Jolie play her in the movies. I don't have a problem with her.

00:49:27:27 - 00:49:30:04
Gabe
But she doesn't have to be she doesn't have to wear.

00:49:30:04 - 00:49:31:17
Lauren
That to be a hot badass.

00:49:32:07 - 00:49:33:10
Gabe
No, she can still be.

00:49:33:10 - 00:49:36:29
Lauren
A hot badass. And all your stuff.

00:49:36:29 - 00:49:43:14
Gabe
But then I also like, you know, like. And like that, right? The new Laura. So looks like a hot badass and she has pants on.

00:49:43:28 - 00:49:44:24
Lauren
Well, and even.

00:49:44:25 - 00:49:45:01
Gabe
In.

00:49:45:02 - 00:49:54:22
Lauren
The Angelina Jolie movies, I think her first scene when she's like in a tomb, there's.

00:49:54:22 - 00:49:57:00
Lauren
A big khakis.

00:49:57:00 - 00:50:10:19
Lauren
Yeah. But I think in her in the first scene, she does wear that outfit and then kind of immediately changes and wears other typically like sleek form fitting things. But she doesn't get back in the booty shorts.

00:50:11:03 - 00:50:15:16
Gabe
And to be fair, I would see how wearing.

00:50:15:16 - 00:50:16:05
Lauren
Sleek.

00:50:16:13 - 00:50:21:25
Gabe
Form fitting clothing would be advantageous in what they do. Because you don't want your clothes to be catching on stuff.

00:50:22:02 - 00:50:23:09
Lauren
Mm hmm. Mm hmm.

00:50:23:21 - 00:50:26:13
Gabe
But then there's those people who are just like, Oh, but it's just.

00:50:26:23 - 00:50:28:28
Lauren
Sexiness, you know, like, okay, buddy.

00:50:29:03 - 00:50:33:16
Gabe
I also love her boots. So she wears, like, kicker combat boots.

00:50:33:21 - 00:50:35:09
Lauren
Oh, yeah. She has to run. She has to.

00:50:35:12 - 00:50:38:04
Lauren
That's awesome.

00:50:38:04 - 00:50:42:11
Lauren
Yeah. I love those Angelina Jolie movies. I love them very, very much.

00:50:42:13 - 00:50:43:10
Gabe
Their only one.

00:50:43:19 - 00:50:44:04
Lauren
Is two.

00:50:46:02 - 00:50:47:18
Gabe
Way Angelina Jolie's into.

00:50:47:25 - 00:50:49:00
Lauren
I don't know if I've ever seen anything.

00:50:49:00 - 00:51:00:13
Lauren
On. There's two of them once. Just Tomb Raider. Yeah, just Lara Croft. Tomb Raider. And that came out in 2001. And then two years later, there came out.

00:51:00:13 - 00:51:01:03
Lauren
The second one.

00:51:01:13 - 00:51:18:27
Lauren
Tomb Raider, The Cradle of Life because yeah, on the on the first Tomb Raider, she is wearing kind of like a little booty short situation. She's not in it very often. And then the second one, she's wearing like full, sleek little outfit go here.

00:51:18:27 - 00:51:28:13
Gabe
She has a bunch of like E honestly her Tomb Raider gave me so much like Charlie's Angels vibes.

00:51:29:06 - 00:51:31:01
Lauren
And I thought she was awesome. Yeah.

00:51:31:04 - 00:51:45:12
Lauren
2001. I mean, that was peak just like girl power. Wear a little outfit, kick some ass while looking good. Like, that was everything that was happening right there.

00:51:45:12 - 00:51:52:23
Gabe
She really does look like the original Tomb Raider. Like if you look at her. Yeah, like the pixilated. She really does.

00:51:52:26 - 00:52:01:09
Lauren
Yeah, but for her. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. I don't know why I'm so shocked by this way.

00:52:01:09 - 00:52:03:23
Gabe
Okay. What was the nude? The new Tomb Raider.

00:52:03:23 - 00:52:10:22
Lauren
Okay, so the second one is she's going to Greece and she meets I.

00:52:10:23 - 00:52:11:12
Gabe
What's it called?

00:52:11:12 - 00:52:12:14
Lauren
I meant sorry.

00:52:12:18 - 00:52:13:01
Lauren
The cradle.

00:52:13:08 - 00:52:13:18
Gabe
Line.

00:52:13:18 - 00:52:14:09
Lauren
I found it.

00:52:14:19 - 00:52:15:29
Lauren
Oh, the new, new one.

00:52:15:29 - 00:52:23:29
Gabe
I just to look at the what she looked like. She just looks around like the new trilogy. Yeah. Tomb Raider. Yeah. Which is awesome.

00:52:24:18 - 00:52:32:07
Lauren
Because that new trilogy started in 2018. And again, it's like a younger Lara Croft as she's.

00:52:32:12 - 00:52:34:01
Gabe
Kind of started in 2013.

00:52:35:04 - 00:52:47:21
Lauren
2013. Yeah. Yeah. So then five years later, outcome's this new Tomb Raider, and it is a younger actress playing more of like a early twenties.

00:52:48:04 - 00:52:57:14
Gabe
Lara, she I think she looks like Lara Croft, too. She gives me early, like young Lara Croft, you know?

00:52:57:17 - 00:52:57:29
Lauren
Yeah.

00:52:59:18 - 00:53:03:25
Gabe
Like, like 18 to 24.

00:53:04:10 - 00:53:04:27
Lauren
Like 20.

00:53:05:04 - 00:53:06:00
Gabe
To 24.

00:53:06:03 - 00:53:07:11
Lauren
Kind of lower craft.

00:53:07:29 - 00:53:11:03
Gabe
And then Angelina Jolie gives me a more mature.

00:53:11:23 - 00:53:13:00
Lauren
In her thirties.

00:53:13:00 - 00:53:14:17
Gabe
She's been through some shit.

00:53:14:29 - 00:53:16:03
Lauren
Like Croft.

00:53:18:13 - 00:53:22:00
Lauren
I know what a time. And Jon Voight played her father.

00:53:23:13 - 00:53:23:28
Lauren
Wow.

00:53:24:05 - 00:53:26:19
Gabe
I will say, I feel like her boobs.

00:53:26:24 - 00:53:27:15
Lauren
Are.

00:53:28:06 - 00:53:33:04
Gabe
A little more realistic in that. Like with what Lara Croft.

00:53:33:12 - 00:53:33:24
Lauren
Croft.

00:53:34:05 - 00:53:49:18
Gabe
Does, she would have to be pretty physique fit. And when you get that kind of physically fit, your boob turns more into a muscle, right? It starts getting more of a like pectoral.

00:53:50:03 - 00:53:50:18
Lauren
Yeah.

00:53:51:08 - 00:53:55:24
Gabe
Kind of look versus boom boom. Which I mean obviously these.

00:53:56:05 - 00:54:07:28
Lauren
Please go see them. They're Sasha good time. They're very obviously there's several plot holes. I won't go into them, but they're a good time. They're very fun.

00:54:09:11 - 00:54:11:01
Lauren
Yeah.

00:54:11:01 - 00:54:11:21
Gabe
There's obviously.

00:54:11:21 - 00:54:14:21
Lauren
Other reasons why Lara Croft boobs are unrealistic.

00:54:14:21 - 00:54:15:16
Gabe
But just like.

00:54:16:05 - 00:54:16:12
Lauren
She.

00:54:17:21 - 00:54:19:11
Gabe
If we ignored all of those.

00:54:19:29 - 00:54:24:04
Lauren
I wouldn't say they're unrealistic. Oh, you mean the triangle shape? Like it's.

00:54:24:05 - 00:54:25:20
Gabe
The triangle, the original.

00:54:25:20 - 00:54:26:03
Lauren
Ones.

00:54:26:09 - 00:54:28:06
Gabe
Just in general, like a.

00:54:28:06 - 00:54:33:16
Lauren
Senior unusual.

00:54:33:16 - 00:54:46:22
Gabe
Sweetie, look at. Okay, number three. Right. She's beyond. She's beyond the triangle we've developed rounding of boob.

00:54:47:03 - 00:54:48:23
Lauren
And that's a real high up, huh?

00:54:49:22 - 00:55:00:09
Gabe
Yes. That's does not. No girl without surgery has that kind of waist and that kind of huge, perky boobs.

00:55:00:11 - 00:55:05:06
Lauren
That's what I'm saying. It's not unrealistic.

00:55:05:06 - 00:55:06:07
Gabe
It's something that can.

00:55:06:07 - 00:55:11:16
Lauren
Have it happen. More can make it happen. But it's.

00:55:11:16 - 00:55:14:16
Gabe
Okay. But you know what I meant when I said unrealistic.

00:55:15:00 - 00:55:16:25
Lauren
It's unusual. Yes.

00:55:18:02 - 00:55:37:29
Lauren
Yeah. No, that's okay. Okay, so we'll have this up on the screen. So they can look at it. Okay. So number one, just like it's truly you can see it. It's like a little triangle trapezoid situation that's just been placed on her charts because they clearly didn't know how to put food on a well.

00:55:37:29 - 00:55:45:10
Gabe
I mean, you look at her shoulders, those are square. I mean, it's just everything. This was this was the graphics.

00:55:45:10 - 00:55:46:00
Lauren
At the time.

00:55:46:11 - 00:55:52:08
Lauren
And then the second one, she's a little less square and blocky the boobs.

00:55:52:08 - 00:55:52:27
Gabe
Are bigger.

00:55:53:12 - 00:55:54:05
Lauren
Boobs. They're bigger.

00:55:54:05 - 00:56:09:03
Gabe
Boobs. They figure in the second one, there was a supposedly a glitch in the coding that caused the boobs to be bigger and they just left it instead of fixing it because they liked it or something like that.

00:56:09:03 - 00:56:43:23
Lauren
So funny. And then the third one, yes, we got a lot more roundness going on and her boobs are lifted up even higher. Her waist is even tinier. And then the fourth one, we kind of have some color change going on, which I think is fun. She's got little strands of hair floating around. Again, it's rounder. We've got the crop top going on at this point, the fifth one in the line.

00:56:43:23 - 00:57:22:23
Lauren
We've got way more of a crop top way lower rise pants, shorts going on, still pretty, pretty skinny. And then the sixth one, waist even thinner, no crop top and then the seventh one we got crop top back and then the eighth one is the 2013. She's got actual pants on. She's got not showing her midriff. Again, she is supposed to be like a teenager in this.

00:57:22:26 - 00:57:51:26
Lauren
They also are kind of like and I think that's probably a good reason why they did that is they were just like, we're trying to she's a teenager, so we're going to like dress her a little more covered. And she's doing the sexier trilogy. The first one, anyway, because it's kind of like a little prequel in a way.

00:57:51:26 - 00:57:54:00
Gabe
I mean, in the flashbacks.

00:57:54:00 - 00:57:54:08
Lauren
I.

00:57:54:27 - 00:57:56:13
Gabe
Believe she was younger, but I didn't.

00:57:56:13 - 00:57:57:28
Lauren
Think she was a teenager.

00:57:59:29 - 00:58:00:18
Gabe
As just the.

00:58:00:18 - 00:58:01:29
Lauren
Character themself.

00:58:03:00 - 00:58:25:28
Lauren
No, sorry. Not the first one in the series. The Rise of the Tomb Raider. So when I'm thinking of she's pretty young, I'm not sure how I don't think they say how old she is.

00:58:25:28 - 00:58:26:17
Gabe
I feel like she.

00:58:26:17 - 00:58:30:06
Lauren
Has to be 20. There's no way she's still a teenager.

00:58:30:29 - 00:58:32:06
Gabe
There's no way she could just.

00:58:32:13 - 00:58:41:24
Lauren
Do all this. So she did does as just a teenager?

00:58:41:24 - 00:58:58:26
Gabe
No, she has to be more than a teenager because the whole reason she gets to where she in the first one is she she joins the archeology group like as a worker, I'm pretty sure she's gone through like.

00:58:58:26 - 00:59:00:16
Lauren
School and stuff like.

00:59:00:16 - 00:59:12:18
Gabe
She probably has maybe not necessarily a degree, but you know what I mean? Like she has to be 20, 21, 22, feel like like.

00:59:12:18 - 00:59:29:03
Lauren
22 also are just like to say.

00:59:33:11 - 00:59:36:26
Gabe
I'm going to say she is unrealistic and this is what I'm going to say she's.

00:59:36:26 - 00:59:37:29
Lauren
Unrealistic.

00:59:38:23 - 01:00:05:20
Gabe
Is that for something to be unrealistic? It is that it's just like not the average person can achieve that, right? The average person cannot go get that many surgeries to look like that because she has not only breasts surgeries, but also she would have to have to get that kind of waist where like they remove your ribs, like that stuff they would have to get she probably would have to get.

01:00:05:28 - 01:00:07:22
Lauren
That's Disney Princess Waist.

01:00:09:06 - 01:00:31:07
Gabe
Yes. And that's why I would say it's unrealistic. I mean, it's like it gives Kardashian vibes, you know what I mean? Where they try to act, they're like, it's natural, it's fine. We don't set unrealistic beauty standards. It's like, well, but you do. The average person does not have the capability to go do all that.

01:00:31:13 - 01:00:39:10
Lauren
I genuinely think if the waist was larger, I think it'd be fine.

01:00:41:05 - 01:00:44:24
Gabe
Well yeah. Then I would believe it's natural because I had super huge boobs.

01:00:46:14 - 01:00:49:13
Lauren
For a smaller, you know, like not.

01:00:49:16 - 01:00:57:00
Gabe
Now. Obviously I'm fat, but like when I wasn't like I had bigger boobs than normal, so my body size.

01:00:57:00 - 01:01:00:00
Lauren
So yes, I would really argue with that. Okay.

01:01:00:04 - 01:01:03:25
Lauren
So it's just a waste issue.

01:01:03:25 - 01:01:06:08
Gabe
Well, the waste just makes it all on proportional.

01:01:06:11 - 01:01:10:01
Lauren
Yeah.

01:01:10:01 - 01:01:12:11
Gabe
She would have hella back pain, let me tell you.

01:01:13:23 - 01:01:19:08
Lauren
Well, maybe that's why she puts so much stuff on her back to kind of way her down and even things out.

01:01:20:04 - 01:01:20:21
Gabe
That's how it.

01:01:20:21 - 01:01:21:06
Lauren
Works.

01:01:22:08 - 01:01:23:05
Gabe
I can tell you this.

01:01:23:05 - 01:01:23:29
Lauren
Outwards.

01:01:25:13 - 01:01:26:20
Gabe
And I also tell you.

01:01:28:02 - 01:01:28:10
Lauren
It's.

01:01:28:23 - 01:01:43:02
Gabe
Because that's natural. Right. And it's not like she wanted the surgeon to give her boobs like that. I, I bet you she would go get a breast reduction because that feels so hard on your body. Is awful.

01:01:44:06 - 01:01:49:10
Lauren
Anyways, sorry. Oh.

01:01:50:21 - 01:01:52:24
Gabe
Let me see if there's anything else that I really.

01:01:52:24 - 01:01:59:13
Lauren
Want to do. Unless there's anything else you want to say to as well.

01:01:59:13 - 01:02:02:00
Gabe
It's so sad that building.

01:02:02:09 - 01:02:03:09
Lauren
Our franchise around.

01:02:03:09 - 01:02:04:07
Gabe
A female lead is.

01:02:04:07 - 01:02:06:20
Lauren
Like seen as a risk.

01:02:06:20 - 01:02:08:13
Gabe
I mean, but.

01:02:08:20 - 01:02:11:21
Lauren
In their defense, this was 98 right.

01:02:11:27 - 01:02:17:20
Gabe
Now. But I mean, like even today, I just mean in general, like even today, it's still seen.

01:02:18:24 - 01:02:21:22
Lauren
As a risk. Is it?

01:02:23:02 - 01:02:26:08
Gabe
Yes. Can you name five female lead?

01:02:27:07 - 01:02:28:12
Lauren
It's off the top.

01:02:28:12 - 01:02:33:11
Gabe
Of your head. Female leads of franchises?

01:02:33:11 - 01:02:36:17
Lauren
No, but in my defense, I don't play a lot of video games.

01:02:37:07 - 01:02:48:15
Gabe
So I play a lot of video games. And if you ask me on the spot, I can't even that. Even if I thought about it, I don't know if I could do that. I mean, think about it like.

01:02:50:08 - 01:02:54:00
Lauren
Okay, so Resident Evil.

01:02:54:00 - 01:02:54:08
Lauren
But.

01:02:54:08 - 01:03:09:08
Gabe
The butt is the lead the entire franchise now because there is a female lead in Resident Evil, but she is not the entire franchise. There's also Leeann and gosh.

01:03:10:06 - 01:03:13:04
Lauren
Okay. So the franchise is just about them.

01:03:14:09 - 01:03:19:15
Lauren
Yes. Like they are the franchise.

01:03:20:21 - 01:03:25:05
Gabe
You know, like Witcher, which was Darryl. Obviously, there's more to watch or than Girl, but I.

01:03:27:17 - 01:03:36:23
Lauren
Yeah, I mean, I guess I feel like I can't even think of a lot of franchises. Just about one person now.

01:03:37:07 - 01:03:45:28
Lauren
Well, I could list a few dozen of those, but that's where every type I'm asked. Google.

01:03:46:11 - 01:04:09:02
Lauren
Female led because I feel like a lot of female led games are not. They're more like anthology series like Assassin's Creed will do some female led things. I don't know.

01:04:09:03 - 01:04:09:19
Lauren
Right.

01:04:10:19 - 01:04:11:03
Gabe
Right.

01:04:11:03 - 01:04:24:22
Lauren
I think it's also just hard to create new franchises based off of one main character in general.

01:04:24:22 - 01:04:29:29
Lauren
The I don't know.

01:04:31:00 - 01:04:33:13
Gabe
Maybe. I mean, you've got.

01:04:34:15 - 01:04:36:00
Lauren
Mario, you've got.

01:04:37:04 - 01:04:43:17
Gabe
Link, you know, Zelda, it has all this name. But, you know, people think of Link.

01:04:44:06 - 01:04:44:21
Lauren
Go ahead.

01:04:45:15 - 01:04:55:01
Lauren
So I also want to push back on that because again, those are games and franchises started many, many years ago now.

01:04:55:01 - 01:05:07:06
Gabe
I know, but I were just talking that you were saying you couldn't come up with any one. So I was just giving the gotcha. Just trying to. Yeah, I was just going through what I could think of off the top of my head.

01:05:07:13 - 01:05:07:24
Lauren
Okay.

01:05:08:00 - 01:05:12:14
Gabe
So like Witcher, I had more, but then.

01:05:12:23 - 01:05:13:08
Lauren
Okay.

01:05:13:21 - 01:05:14:15
Lauren
I'm sorry.

01:05:14:23 - 01:05:15:19
Gabe
I'm just curious.

01:05:15:19 - 01:05:22:01
Lauren
Okay, like, you know, since 2010, right? Like, I just. I feel.

01:05:22:01 - 01:05:23:18
Gabe
Like, what, years after 20.

01:05:23:18 - 01:05:24:29
Lauren
Ten? Perfect.

01:05:25:15 - 01:05:58:22
Lauren
But I feel like there is a lot of things that happened in the nineties and in the arts that, yes, there's a lot of learning. There is a lot of things going on. There was a lot of, oh, women like to game like it was. It was I feel like now it's much more accepted and understood. And I just so I don't know if it's just they haven't had.

01:05:58:22 - 01:06:00:20
Gabe
Okay, let me come back with this then.

01:06:01:00 - 01:06:01:06
Lauren
Okay.

01:06:01:26 - 01:06:18:15
Gabe
Let's just say it's not even a franchise. What percentage do you think a game is fully led by a female? And there's no option to be a male character. And that female truly is like the lead of the game.

01:06:19:25 - 01:06:25:22
Lauren
And 15%.

01:06:25:22 - 01:06:27:25
Lauren
I mean, I feel like that's generous.

01:06:27:29 - 01:06:28:14
Lauren
15.

01:06:28:14 - 01:06:34:04
Lauren
Oh I think yeah. I think it'd be less yeah. Feel like it's less than that. I don't know.

01:06:34:04 - 01:06:49:00
Gabe
I have no idea what the exact percentage is. This is just me posing that question. Since you're saying there's no there's not a lot of you would say franchises about one person showing off?

01:06:49:00 - 01:06:53:07
Lauren
I agree with that. I still feel like there are, but that's fair.

01:06:56:14 - 01:07:03:29
Lauren
Online gaming site solitaire card claims that out of oh, see, this is the thing. It's so hard to.

01:07:04:05 - 01:07:04:24
Gabe
Be trusted.

01:07:06:09 - 01:07:28:05
Lauren
Because they say it's out of 150 popular video games released between 85 and 2002. And I'm like, okay, how did you decide which 150 you're looking at? What the heck? And then everyone's running around. It's been like just 6% of global video Games feature a female protagonist out of the 150 that they looked at. Okay.

01:07:29:15 - 01:07:41:15
Gabe
Well, if they went based off of sales, right, and they arranged games according to sales, then I would be more willing to trust them when they say the popular. But they don't say why.

01:07:41:15 - 01:07:44:22
Lauren
They're saying it's the most popular. So yeah.

01:07:45:15 - 01:08:06:21
Lauren
But I feel like franchises like Assassin's Creed and like I guess the Resident Evil, the female characters were earlier. But I feel like franchises are adding in female protagonists into some of their later games.

01:08:06:21 - 01:08:09:00
Lauren
Maybe they didn't start it.

01:08:09:14 - 01:08:11:21
Lauren
But you got there.

01:08:11:28 - 01:08:17:08
Gabe
I mean, I'm not dissing that. I'm just saying it's still a small percentage even with.

01:08:17:08 - 01:08:18:20
Lauren
That, which is sad.

01:08:19:18 - 01:08:47:18
Lauren
So I'm looking Wikipedia there category of video games featuring female protagonists and so they have a bunch of subcategories, including video games based on Alice in Wonderland Barbie video games. The only thing under MN is video games based on Nancy Drew. Yes. In the teens, yes, we had Tomb Raider and then they have video games based on totally spies.

01:08:48:15 - 01:08:53:18
Lauren
Tell me I want to play totally spider out.

01:08:53:18 - 01:09:20:08
Gabe
First, I want to say before I forget, we were talking about the second two raider, right. So and how they use her sexuality on marketing. Okay. Well, we really saw this in the second Terminator. They made an ad campaign already called Where the Boys Are. And this campaign suggested men were abandoning traditional male spaces like the strip club to go hang out with Lara.

01:09:20:08 - 01:09:48:28
Gabe
And then in 1999, Iris had to go to court to keep Lara's name and the Tomb Raider logo out of Playboy which they won, because they argued that such a public association of the character with pornography would forever ruin her image. Oh, I actually yes. This is another interesting point. Before I get to, I guess, what I really wanted to say to the ongoing cultural conversation about boobs.

01:09:48:28 - 01:09:55:27
Gabe
You know, large boobs has arguably done more to curb systematic sexual objectification in gaming than to perpetuate it.

01:09:56:03 - 01:10:05:20
Lauren
Thoughts on that?

01:10:05:20 - 01:10:22:28
Lauren
I think having her so unrealistic like to the point of ridiculousness right is an easier pushback of that is ridiculous.

01:10:24:06 - 01:10:29:08
Gabe
Versus I don't know that I think it's easier for a woman to see that and say that's.

01:10:29:08 - 01:10:31:08
Lauren
Not realistic.

01:10:31:26 - 01:10:37:04
Lauren
Sorry. Are they talking about a pushback from women or just in.

01:10:37:21 - 01:11:05:24
Gabe
Oh, they're just in general. So does. Okay, so so the whole thing about Laura is that whenever a conversation about Tomb Raider comes up, it always inevitably comes around to her boobs and her boobs size. And there's this continue talking about it. Does this has this done more to curb systematic sexual objectification in gaming or has it done more to perpetuate it?

01:11:06:06 - 01:11:11:00
Gabe
Like, has this conversation helped with that or causes it to be.

01:11:11:00 - 01:11:23:23
Lauren
More do more harm? Diary Right. I think from what I've read. Hmm.

01:11:27:16 - 01:11:29:26
Gabe
Right. She that's a thinker.

01:11:29:26 - 01:12:04:04
Lauren
So some games I'm sure, saw the success and saw that people were like, this is great. This is a good time. I liked seeing this and we're like, Awesome. We'll make bigger boobs on our characters and send them off on their merry way. Others. And because of the controversy, again, controversy sells. Maybe the controversy is based on sex or it's based on boobs or it's based on wildness or whatever.

01:12:04:04 - 01:12:27:07
Lauren
Controversy gets people talking about your franchise. Very Gossip Girl, right? When Gossip Girl premiered and their season two was coming out and they were just all of their ads were parents don't want their kids to watch. They're like this too racy for TV like, they use that and they ran with it because they were just like, This is great.

01:12:27:07 - 01:12:37:24
Lauren
What are all the teenagers going to want to do? Watch it. Watch it. If their parents don't want them to watch it because it's racy and it's sexy and there's stuff going on. Oh, my gosh.

01:12:38:06 - 01:12:38:26
Lauren
Wow.

01:12:39:26 - 01:12:41:15
Lauren
Fun. I want to get in there.

01:12:42:03 - 01:12:46:24
Lauren
So I just.

01:12:47:21 - 01:12:52:23
Lauren
I don't I push back on the idea that because.

01:12:53:12 - 01:12:53:20
Lauren
The.

01:12:54:09 - 01:13:18:16
Lauren
Teenage boys see a character on a video game who has big boobs, that that affects their expectations in life. I just I struggle. I struggle like they may find it. Okay, sure.

01:13:18:21 - 01:13:20:18
Gabe
It's not everything or.

01:13:20:19 - 01:13:21:07
Lauren
Something.

01:13:22:07 - 01:13:44:20
Gabe
At you for that. And it's not because I disagree or anything. It just like the devil's advocate here, you say that makes me think about. So what about all the studies that show that, you know, people who watch porn get unrealistic ideas for what happens in sex and like what their partners should look like down there?

01:13:46:11 - 01:14:31:10
Lauren
Yeah. And I guess partial rebuttal is porn has algorithms and whatever or like people have things that they like and they go and search for it specifically because they like it or they've seen it and they get drawn to something. And so they kind of get pulled into wilder and wilder things. They can be just down a whirlpool into just like all sorts of things that they didn't even know existed because they but but that's the kind of person that they are.

01:14:31:10 - 01:14:53:19
Lauren
You know, I think there are people who are just inherently drawn to stuff like that or who are their their personality, just kind of get sucked into things like that versus other people who can like watch a couple of things of porn and be like, All right, not for me or Great. I know this one thing I like.

01:14:53:19 - 01:14:54:29
Lauren
And.

01:14:55:05 - 01:15:01:28
Lauren
I get to watch that and then be done and don't need to like keep zipping down.

01:15:03:16 - 01:15:10:15
Gabe
Okay. Pushback to that, though. Until recently, like until recently, the majority of porn.

01:15:10:15 - 01:15:11:18
Lauren
Though, was by.

01:15:12:07 - 01:15:29:11
Gabe
Porn stars. There wasn't all of this homemade porn. So you were seeing the extremes even if you were just watching, you know, something relatively normal and quote unquote vanilla, you were still seeing huge.

01:15:30:04 - 01:15:30:13
Lauren
Here's a.

01:15:30:29 - 01:15:34:14
Gabe
Bonkers huge Cocker's.

01:15:37:23 - 01:15:38:07
Lauren
Yeah.

01:15:39:12 - 01:15:45:00
Lauren
So I do I do absolutely acknowledge that.

01:15:45:10 - 01:15:45:26
Lauren
Something.

01:15:46:13 - 01:16:10:17
Lauren
But if you are only exposed to that and that's the only thing you're aware of and then you see it in real life and you're just like, I've seen better. I, I'm not interested in what's going on here because I've seen okay, great go data porn star and I don't know.

01:16:12:16 - 01:16:22:07
Gabe
But also sorry they're not. Okay. Okay. So then let's broaden it out further to this. Like it's not.

01:16:22:07 - 01:16:22:15
Lauren
Just.

01:16:22:26 - 01:16:52:23
Gabe
Porn, like it's celebrity ese. It's, it's, it's media, it's YouTubers. It's all of that. And that is all right. I don't want to be sexist, but I think females are maybe a little more often more realistic about sex. And I think it's more often males who are like have certain expectations or things that are going to happen just because of what is exposed to.

01:16:52:23 - 01:16:53:06
Lauren
Them.

01:16:53:06 - 01:16:54:15
Gabe
Like what they're going to.

01:16:54:18 - 01:16:56:00
Lauren
See. Mm mm.

01:16:56:16 - 01:17:00:25
Lauren
However over them as yeah, this is what it's like.

01:17:01:24 - 01:17:26:03
Gabe
Yes, I will say we've strayed really far from the original saying in that like this was just this wasn't even necessarily the question was necessarily about this it was just like because we keep talking about it. Has this helped in what media shows? I think is at least I think this is what my.

01:17:26:03 - 01:17:27:14
Lauren
Question was trying to ask.

01:17:27:23 - 01:17:35:26
Gabe
Or the statement is like, is this has this been helpful in how women are portrayed.

01:17:35:26 - 01:17:36:14
Lauren
In games.

01:17:36:14 - 01:17:48:25
Gabe
And like kept it from getting from staying crazy and out of control? Or has it made it worse because we're just always still talking about boobs? I would say, I don't know if it's made it worse, but I think.

01:17:48:25 - 01:17:50:14
Lauren
Because we.

01:17:50:14 - 01:17:51:09
Gabe
Keep talking.

01:17:51:09 - 01:17:51:18
Lauren
About.

01:17:51:18 - 01:18:02:18
Gabe
We keep talking about Laura Craft and how she was made and what does it mean and what does she mean? And I think it has helped. I don't know if it's curbed.

01:18:02:19 - 01:18:04:26
Lauren
Systematic sexual objectification.

01:18:05:10 - 01:18:37:20
Gabe
But I would say it is a very it's continuing to be relevant. I mean, it's gotten to a time where women do speak out more about this and like there are women trying to change stuff in the game. So I think it at the very least paved the way and like how you said way back of like if if her being oversexualized was what had to happen so we could have the character today then you're glad it did like you know what I mean?

01:18:37:20 - 01:18:50:28
Gabe
It paved the way. If it wasn't for her being like that, we wouldn't even be able to have this conversation, you know what I mean? And because she stays relevant, we can keep talking about it and see how we can change.

01:18:51:17 - 01:19:05:07
Lauren
What's also feel. Just like she is does have such an extreme body. So again, I just feel like it's very easy for women to say.

01:19:07:19 - 01:19:08:02
Lauren
I don't.

01:19:09:21 - 01:19:14:22
Lauren
It's not it's not reasonable for a normal person to look like that.

01:19:15:20 - 01:19:15:29
Lauren
Right.

01:19:16:13 - 01:19:25:14
Gabe
What's okay, so you're saying that this is this is what I originally wanted to get to. This bullet point was the argument that men were having of.

01:19:26:01 - 01:19:26:15
Lauren
Could.

01:19:26:15 - 01:19:40:28
Gabe
Women relate to her if they didn't also have enormous press or a body like her? Would women still be able to relate to LA?

01:19:40:28 - 01:19:43:24
Lauren
Can you repeat the question?

01:19:43:24 - 01:20:00:23
Gabe
It's not a question. It was that I saw this statement and like there's like multiple critics saying this. I'm like developers and stuff too. I think they were just like, Can women even relate to her if they don't also have enormous breasts?

01:20:00:23 - 01:20:07:11
Lauren
I can. Men relate to a character who has who doesn't have an enormous, dark.

01:20:09:04 - 01:20:31:09
Gabe
I know I was like, this is wild. Like, I just I knew I saw that and I was like, oh, I have to I have to bring this up. This really, because you'll have the same just like what that I had. And then it was led by a guy of you and like her impossible that if you made her a sham of a feminist role model, you can't tricking me.

01:20:31:09 - 01:20:32:08
Lauren
Gave me company.

01:20:32:09 - 01:20:43:24
Lauren
So that's what makes me mad, right? So, yes. Does she have a cellular little Barbie boob waist ratio? Yes.

01:20:43:24 - 01:20:44:05
Gabe
Yeah.

01:20:44:28 - 01:21:01:24
Lauren
Does that make her less cool and less badass? No, no. Does that make women go? Yeah, she looks like a porn star. I don't like her, I'm sure. Yes, but also.

01:21:01:24 - 01:21:02:08
Gabe
Some.

01:21:02:08 - 01:21:25:27
Lauren
You know, like if you're judging her for the way her body is shaped and judging her, therefore, for her sexuality, that doesn't make you a good person. It doesn't take away from the person that she is and the characteristics and the strength that she has is just because she looks hot and wears booty shorts.

01:21:26:29 - 01:21:27:10
Lauren
Yes.

01:21:27:29 - 01:21:44:11
Gabe
This is maybe going to make me sound sexist, but I feel like women are able to better transcend that kind of stuff. Then men, just because of how our brains.

01:21:44:11 - 01:21:45:17
Lauren
Are formed and.

01:21:45:17 - 01:21:47:04
Gabe
Work. Like we just.

01:21:48:03 - 01:21:56:18
Lauren
Men are very, very visual creatures and women. Yeah, I appreciate it. But absolutely can also just move past.

01:21:56:18 - 01:21:57:12
Gabe
And beyond it.

01:21:57:16 - 01:21:58:27
Lauren
Yeah. And get deeper.

01:22:00:05 - 01:22:11:12
Gabe
So like I saw that and I was like, I don't think a lot of women really care. I think that and then okay, this right. And then this was further up by.

01:22:17:09 - 01:22:20:09
Lauren
Not is it this one person?

01:22:20:09 - 01:22:33:21
Gabe
Um, oh yeah. Right. Okay. So then tabloids had been ranking potential actors of who could play Laura based primarily on their breast size. And because of this and and how she was this was driving teenage girls to get breast.

01:22:33:21 - 01:22:35:06
Lauren
Implants because of her.

01:22:35:25 - 01:22:39:29
Gabe
Was it would it be like where.

01:22:40:13 - 01:23:13:17
Lauren
How, where X was it also? Just like it was the early 2000s and people were just doing that. Was it just like right. That was trendy because we had just left the Coke thing bodies of the nineties and we were moving a little bit different. We were just doing different body shapes in early 2000s. And so everyone who was super, super skinny in the nineties all of a sudden was just like.

01:23:13:22 - 01:23:14:00
Lauren
Hmm.

01:23:14:05 - 01:23:45:06
Lauren
I might want some curves so I can start filling out whatever, whatever. I don't want to be a flat chested anymore. So were they just getting the jobs because body body types were coming into into vogue, into trend that were just different. Did it have I. Lara Croft Sure. She had a trendy body type. Now, doesn't mean she led the trend or was the trend for her.

01:23:45:06 - 01:23:48:14
Gabe
Or shamed women into doing that kind of.

01:23:48:14 - 01:23:49:06
Lauren
Stuff.

01:23:50:01 - 01:24:12:18
Lauren
That's just such just like parental panic of just like, oh, this thing is happening. It's affecting the children now. It's not. It's there. And this is what I was trying to get at when I was talking about like, yeah, porn and like, everything else is like an it's one game. I think Lara Croft on her own did this.

01:24:12:26 - 01:24:32:25
Lauren
No. Did do I think that the developers who created her did it in a vacuum and led this ooh, boys have never seen big boobs on a pixelated character before. Let's it like. No they were following a trend. They were not leading a trend.

01:24:33:24 - 01:24:41:11
Gabe
They definitely kind of led that. There was definitely not that kind of bold bridge on female characters.

01:24:41:11 - 01:24:41:24
Lauren
Before.

01:24:41:24 - 01:24:44:15
Gabe
That, but also because graphics didn't really.

01:24:44:24 - 01:24:45:18
Lauren
In video games.

01:24:45:18 - 01:24:48:24
Gabe
Sure do it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like video.

01:24:48:24 - 01:24:51:10
Lauren
Comics. Every single comic that had a woman.

01:24:51:10 - 01:24:52:21
Lauren
Oh, yeah, no. Yeah.

01:24:53:12 - 01:25:01:14
Lauren
Just atrociously large breasts, like comically large breasts. And so I feel like they were just like.

01:25:01:24 - 01:25:01:29
Lauren
Hmm.

01:25:02:09 - 01:25:08:04
Lauren
All right, well, let's. Yeah, put her in this.

01:25:08:04 - 01:25:09:03
Lauren
I dunno. Yes.

01:25:09:27 - 01:25:31:07
Lauren
So I don't think that she was the catalyst or any teenage like. Sure, I'm sure there were plenty of teenage boys who played the game and were just like, this is hot. I like this big boobs, tiny waist. And they were like, No one else has ever thought of this before. Fabulous. And that just sent them down a path of oblivion.

01:25:32:17 - 01:25:33:27
Lauren
I don't know if you.

01:25:35:12 - 01:25:47:02
Gabe
Do you think the Kardashians led the West word?

01:25:47:05 - 01:25:47:12
Lauren
I don't.

01:25:47:12 - 01:25:51:00
Gabe
Know if I mean trend, but like led the way for.

01:25:52:15 - 01:25:52:18
Lauren
It.

01:25:53:03 - 01:26:00:09
Gabe
You know, not led the way. Nope. Wait, I have to think about how I'm.

01:26:00:09 - 01:26:05:03
Lauren
Trying to phrase.

01:26:05:03 - 01:26:10:07
Gabe
Do you think the Kardashians have caused women to think they need a.

01:26:10:07 - 01:26:11:13
Lauren
Bunch of plastic surgery.

01:26:13:11 - 01:26:17:08
Gabe
Or have been maybe like the forefront.

01:26:17:08 - 01:26:18:04
Lauren
Of the cause, like.

01:26:18:04 - 01:26:32:19
Gabe
Led the way? And then there's the trickle down. I guess my thought is that like a driving force. Do you think they were a driving force in that Kardashians?

01:26:32:19 - 01:27:12:03
Lauren
There are saleswomen. Yes. And they are trendsetters. Yeah. That is their job. And so do I think they saw things happening, some momentum, because they they aren't leaders of trends. They're not early adopters necessarily. They're kind of the leaders of that second wave of just like normal people moving to something. And so they or maybe they're the end of the early adopters.

01:27:12:06 - 01:27:38:19
Lauren
So like the most of the early adopters have already come in. They've started doing their stuff, they've started like showing off their looks. And the Kardashians pop in and say, Look, I want to do that. And then general population, it kind of gets in their vision and then they're going, Oh, interesting, because I know there were lots of girls who are going into, Mac, or so I'm not.

01:27:38:19 - 01:27:46:19
Gabe
Wait, wait, let me stop you. I'm not talking makeup. I'm talking specifically body standards and, plastic surgery.

01:27:46:26 - 01:27:51:17
Lauren
Right. But they were girls who were going into Mac and Sephora saying, I want to look like Kim Kardashian.

01:27:52:19 - 01:27:53:03
Lauren
Right.

01:27:53:11 - 01:28:35:01
Lauren
And I yes. And I feel like those type of people who would go in and be like, I want to look like them makeup probably is not enough. So I think them changing stuff about themselves. So obviously so regularly and I think so many other celebrities do it. I think there are so many celebrity trends and I think hop on them as soon as all their little assistants come running in and saying, Ooh, like, Blake, Lively's doing this or these people are doing this, and they go, okay, interesting.

01:28:35:11 - 01:29:21:11
Lauren
Which one do we think is going to be impactful? Are going to get the most buzz or get the most excitement or whatever, and then they go and do it. And then yeah, I think people see it happening, but they probably have seen it happening on some other big celebrities too, because the Kardashians don't necessarily want to be the first to do something because they don't want they want to see the momentum behind a change before jumping it into it themselves so they don't make fool of themselves if nobody comes with them.

01:29:21:11 - 01:29:33:27
Gabe
Okay. So first, I would say to the celebrity saying, yes, celebrities for a long time have been doing plastic surgery. Sure. We all know they do stuff to look as good as they do at 50.

01:29:33:27 - 01:29:35:08
Lauren
We're not idiots.

01:29:36:10 - 01:30:16:03
Gabe
Hey, I would say they are more of the extreme of plastic surgery. And I would say when it comes to plastic surgery, which is when I was more initially talking about they couldn't have been early adopters regardless because that's something that has been a possible for a good while. So I would still say they were trendsetters for that because when they really started doing it and going crazy with it, right, you get like I okay, so this is how I would say it, right?

01:30:16:14 - 01:30:48:02
Gabe
Very obviously A-level celebrities did it, not all of them. A lot of them, whether it was a little or a lot of it. Right. They all are doing the crazy stuff that rich people can do. Okay. But I would say it was not as common for B or C level celebrities to be doing it. And then when you had the Kardashians doing it, not only did that become more common, but then you have like like YouTubers who don't even fall in B and C celebrity.

01:30:48:17 - 01:31:13:25
Gabe
They were doing it. Or there's all the Instagram normal people becoming Instagram models, doing it and doing all of that. So that's where I would argue that I think they were a trendsetter for that. And I would say I think they were were driving force for setting for the societal, societal beauty standard, becoming even more unrealistic.

01:31:13:25 - 01:31:14:19
Lauren
Than it already was.

01:31:16:04 - 01:31:21:01
Lauren
Yeah I mean, I think Instagram in general.

01:31:22:21 - 01:31:23:01
Gabe
Yeah.

01:31:23:14 - 01:31:49:11
Lauren
Is that a driving force? Because there's that whole, you know, Instagram face, right, where everyone keeps talking about how people are kind of getting similar faces because they're all going in and asking for the same look or have the same inspiration. And do I think there are definitely people or groups of people who say, oh, I saw what Kim Kardashian did.

01:31:49:24 - 01:31:53:28
Lauren
I want my face to look like that? Yes, absolutely.

01:31:54:13 - 01:31:58:19
Lauren
I still feel like they were like one of the first dominoes that set down the thing.

01:31:58:29 - 01:32:01:08
Gabe
Even if they maybe don't further perpetuate it.

01:32:01:08 - 01:32:01:21
Lauren
Now.

01:32:02:03 - 01:32:27:27
Lauren
I think they're just they were probably one of the first groups to be really open about it. Like, I feel like most of the time plastic surgery was kind of like, ooh, it was a kind of a secret. If somebody got a nose job or somebody had stuff done and they changed and got so much done to be like it was more drastic and it would happen more often.

01:32:28:09 - 01:32:32:21
Lauren
So I think people are just much more aware of it maybe.

01:32:32:21 - 01:32:36:19
Gabe
Builds up, but that's what I mean though is the unrealistic.

01:32:36:27 - 01:32:37:07
Lauren
Mhm.

01:32:37:28 - 01:32:58:12
Gabe
Surgeries, it's more than just a little lip filler, a little botox to keep the wrinkles away like they are some of the extremes of plastic surgery and like we're saying earlier, like the average person cannot go and do the stuff they do. They can't go to the doctors that can.

01:32:58:12 - 01:32:59:07
Lauren
Perform.

01:33:00:00 - 01:33:10:02
Gabe
Really well done surgery because like like a person like me, I if I got skinny enough or even now, I would totally want to get a breast reduction.

01:33:10:08 - 01:33:13:12
Lauren
But I.

01:33:13:12 - 01:33:15:25
Gabe
I don't even know if any insurance covers.

01:33:15:25 - 01:33:16:05
Lauren
That.

01:33:16:24 - 01:33:21:15
Gabe
Except it would be something that would be helpful to my health.

01:33:22:06 - 01:33:36:27
Lauren
Yeah, I think some do, especially when it's related to weight loss since employer benefits benefit packages typically.

01:33:37:08 - 01:33:37:17
Gabe
Right.

01:33:37:21 - 01:33:51:16
Lauren
Like anything bariatric or any other kind of weight related benefit packages typically like favor those and like lean heavily on those just because they're just like.

01:33:51:16 - 01:33:52:17
Gabe
That's what I thought.

01:33:52:18 - 01:33:52:25
Lauren
Yeah.

01:33:53:18 - 01:34:36:17
Lauren
Because everyone, because of the whole thought process of well, we can't solve other problems until they've lost weight, therefore we need them to lose weight so that other problems either can be found right solved. Which makes sense in some cases, but mostly no. But yeah. So like anything to do with weight loss is many. It's more likely to be covered than something that would be an seen as elective surgery.

01:34:38:05 - 01:34:41:04
Lauren
Yeah. Yeah.

01:34:41:04 - 01:34:48:25
Gabe
Okay. Well, I think our conclusion is that Laura Craft is more than.

01:34:48:25 - 01:34:50:29
Lauren
Just who made her.

01:34:51:13 - 01:34:56:03
Gabe
And she doesn't just have to be what she originally was.

01:34:56:05 - 01:34:58:24
Lauren
Originally made for. You know.

01:34:59:06 - 01:35:32:26
Gabe
Just like society progresses and changes, why cannot the character? Because they are ultimately a part and parallel to society. You know what I mean? Like, just as you're going, things change. So I think we can reclaim Laura for Laura for ourselves. She doesn't just have to be she can be more than what she is. But even if she doesn't.

01:35:34:02 - 01:35:34:29
Lauren
Change.

01:35:35:14 - 01:35:44:18
Gabe
Drastically, I think she still is a female empowerment symbol because we want to him look what.

01:35:45:16 - 01:36:00:18
Lauren
It was. So, you know, that comic of like the blond, big, bold woman walking along, picking up a book and then turning into, like, you know, that kind of alternative. Just nerd girl.

01:36:00:18 - 01:36:01:04
Gabe
Now.

01:36:01:29 - 01:36:02:29
Lauren
My God, I'll send it to you.

01:36:02:29 - 01:36:03:14
Lauren
Oh, sorry.

01:36:04:02 - 01:36:06:16
Gabe
I don't know. I just. I think she can still be a.

01:36:06:16 - 01:36:08:13
Lauren
Strong female empowerment.

01:36:08:13 - 01:36:14:00
Gabe
Because I feel like something people forget as a characters. Ultimately, what.

01:36:14:00 - 01:36:16:00
Lauren
You make of it, you.

01:36:16:00 - 01:36:19:01
Gabe
Know what I mean? Like you don't. I've said that too much tonight.

01:36:19:01 - 01:36:20:12
Lauren
You know what I mean? Good Lord.

01:36:21:08 - 01:36:53:21
Gabe
It doesn't just have to be what society says it is. I never looked at Barbie's or Laura's or other bodies and or even like Polly Pockets and thought, that's what I have to achieve. That's what I need to be. I looked more I What did they do? What did they say? What did they believe in? And that was how I related to that character or not or thought they were worth looking.

01:36:53:21 - 01:36:56:19
Lauren
Up to or not.

01:36:57:15 - 01:37:26:29
Lauren
I agree. I think there's so much of characters that people put a lot of attention on and they're like, Oh my gosh, this character, the way that they look or the way that they act or whatever, it's going to be super, super impactful on people. And it's like, Okay, well, teach your kids that just because somebody looks a certain way or does a certain thing or like that doesn't reflect you.

01:37:27:00 - 01:37:36:08
Lauren
That doesn't that doesn't mean you have to do that thing that way. You have to look that certain way, like just separate that out.

01:37:36:08 - 01:37:47:18
Gabe
Yes. She's more than just what they made her. She can be what she is to you and I think it's good that we keep talking.

01:37:47:18 - 01:37:49:11
Lauren
About Laura just.

01:37:49:11 - 01:38:13:22
Gabe
In general. That's just like we keep remembering her because. Sure, maybe franchises. Now, I don't know if I agree with that, but maybe now franchises aren't not focused on one character or one set of characters. You know, that's probably agree with that a little bit. I still think there are plenty of franchises.

01:38:13:22 - 01:38:14:21
Lauren
Focused on one character.

01:38:14:21 - 01:38:18:02
Gabe
But that's fine.

01:38:18:02 - 01:38:22:11
Lauren
Oh my God. When I forget my point.

01:38:22:11 - 01:38:41:22
Gabe
It oh, it continues to bring attention to representation in gaming and that not just for females but for everyone, that there are characters out there that everyone can relate to. And it's not just certain characters that we have no.

01:38:41:22 - 01:38:45:09
Lauren
Choice but to decide. Do we want to relate to them or not?

01:38:45:09 - 01:38:47:23
Gabe
You know that there are characters out there for us.

01:38:48:15 - 01:38:49:24
Lauren
Are us for us.

01:38:50:26 - 01:39:10:07
Gabe
So I think it's good that is continue to be a discussion. I hope it still continues to be a discussion, which is why I thought it was important that we talked about it to to further that, because I think it does shine a light on that representation, but also to remind us that a character can be more than just what you physically see.

01:39:10:07 - 01:39:14:00
Gabe
Just like they're like don't judge a cover by its doctors.

01:39:14:13 - 01:39:16:29
Lauren
I don't judge a book by its cover yet.

01:39:16:29 - 01:39:22:23
Gabe
Guys quit judging covers by their books. Honestly, the idea is actually that's fair.

01:39:23:03 - 01:39:27:15
Lauren
There are some really atrocious covers for some really good books and it's very sad.

01:39:28:17 - 01:39:43:00
Gabe
It is. It is because you there's so many people who look at the cover and like, that's really all you have to decide. Do you want to read a book or not? You get a small paragraph and the cover of the book and you could miss out on some really great books because that's.

01:39:43:20 - 01:39:45:00
Lauren
Not what you're judging after.

01:39:45:17 - 01:40:13:19
Lauren
I also wanted to say that it was only 15 years after Laura was created that she was given kind of a new life and a new look. And so, you know, it's been, what, 25 or 25 years since Lara Croft first was introduced. So, you know, and another 20 years, who knows what we're going to know or remember about the franchise?

01:40:13:28 - 01:40:42:07
Lauren
Like maybe, maybe the first ten years were this wildly sexualized creature. And then from then on out, we're just like, now we actually don't need that. But I was also thinking about how this works in reverse for some characters, right? Because Laura started out sexy and then it's been turned a little more realistic versus a character like Thelma from Scooby Doo, who started out as just like a normal ass person, and then now anytime, like if you look at.

01:40:43:01 - 01:40:43:18
Lauren
Velma.

01:40:44:07 - 01:40:55:01
Lauren
In like Google Images, turn your safe search on. I mean what I mean and yes.

01:40:55:09 - 01:40:56:29
Lauren
Yes, I just.

01:40:59:09 - 01:40:59:29
Gabe
I also would.

01:40:59:29 - 01:41:00:27
Lauren
Not be upset.

01:41:01:13 - 01:41:01:27
Gabe
If she.

01:41:01:27 - 01:41:08:04
Lauren
Kept some aspect of sexiness. Laura. Laura, just saying.

01:41:09:00 - 01:41:14:03
Gabe
I feel like I'm glad that's a part.

01:41:14:03 - 01:41:15:18
Lauren
Of her because I think it's.

01:41:17:05 - 01:41:20:12
Gabe
The way they are. See me how that would not be an empowerment. I think it.

01:41:20:12 - 01:41:22:09
Lauren
Is an empowerment because.

01:41:22:26 - 01:41:30:08
Gabe
It reminds women like you can be sexy, you don't have to not be sexy. And there's many ways to be sexy.

01:41:30:27 - 01:41:40:03
Lauren
Totally agree, because I feel like there's so many things that are made like for women and for girls that have all sexiness sucked out of them.

01:41:41:02 - 01:41:41:14
Lauren
Mm hmm.

01:41:41:22 - 01:42:10:00
Lauren
Because it's so sterilized, it's so just like, no, we're a perfect, pure little angel. Like, no plotting. I mean, what are you talking about? Like, I'm just here hanging out, and I feel like that sets people up for trouble, too. If they. If there's no if they don't have anything happening, and all of a sudden they go out in the real world and they're like, Oh, you can't just say stuff like that.

01:42:10:00 - 01:42:18:03
Lauren
Like, you have to be mindful of how other people will take things because not everyone has good intentions like that. Right? So yeah.

01:42:18:16 - 01:42:22:17
Lauren
Okay. Well, I.

01:42:22:17 - 01:42:23:06
Gabe
I'm really glad we.

01:42:23:06 - 01:42:26:20
Lauren
Talked about that as another episode I really enjoyed talking about.

01:42:27:12 - 01:42:51:07
Gabe
I'm all right. Well, if you have a developer game or site, Chris, you want us to talk about or any local anonymous gossip, you simply must tell somebody, please let us know on Twitter at at no sidequests or emails and no side quests at gmail.com. And if you'd like to see our lovely faces during the podcast, we post each episode with video to our I Don't Believe in Sidequest YouTube channel.

01:42:51:07 - 01:43:21:01
Gabe
Before I go into our plugs, just plug in the Twitch channel. Who knows when this will come out? But we have done at least this time we're recording it one stream and probably by the time this comes out multiple streams. So please, you know, don't be afraid to drop a follow to our I think it's no side quests or twitches no side quests to be able to see us when we are alive.

01:43:21:01 - 01:43:41:23
Gabe
I think we're going to try and post VODs on the YouTube, so you least are able to do that. But you can find me at Nenyaadamas on Twitter, Twitch, YouTube and Instagram and you can find Lauren at Sweetie_potat on Twitter, Twitch and YouTube. I don't know why I got an accent, but I just felt like it when I said your name.

01:43:41:23 - 01:43:42:19
Lauren
Because I left.

01:43:42:19 - 01:43:42:27
Lauren
It.

01:43:43:26 - 01:43:46:14
Gabe
Yeah. You didn't really say Laura.

01:43:47:10 - 01:43:48:09
Lauren
Often enough.

01:43:48:09 - 01:43:52:15
Gabe
In the accent were just kind of like Laura, but you know what I mean?

01:43:52:15 - 01:43:53:29
Lauren
Laura Yeah.

01:43:54:15 - 01:44:02:22
Gabe
Yeah, yeah. You have to have the underlying. Laura Anyways, you're like, What are you talking about?

01:44:02:29 - 01:44:03:27
Lauren
I don't worry about it.

01:44:04:13 - 01:44:07:19
Gabe
It's a meme, not a mean kind of a meme, but it's true anyways.

01:44:08:08 - 01:44:17:16
Lauren
Bye!